M1 - wow

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Lombo
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Post by Lombo »

Congrats. It seems an amazing computer. You’re spoiled !
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Post by TOS »

i'm really blown away by how damn fast it is

and what a screen!
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Post by TOS »

jesus, i'm having to relearn the mac stuff, so weird
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Re:

Post by ukimalefu »

TOS wrote: jesus, i'm having to relearn the mac stuff, so weird


well, if you have been away, you'd have to earn the new Mac stuff, apple does this things of changing things, moving them around, and even taking things away, without telling anybody
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Re: Re:

Post by Pariah »

ukimalefu wrote:
TOS wrote: jesus, i'm having to relearn the mac stuff, so weird


well, if you have been away, you'd have to earn the new Mac stuff, apple does this things of changing things, moving them around, and even taking things away, without telling anybody

I can imagine if you got used to Windows switching back to OSX would be disorienting because Windows is such a weird beast.
When I was back home before coming out here I did some maintenance on my sisters Mac and even though I had not touched OSX in over 7 years it was pretty easy to figure things out because the organization of OSX is fairly similar to Linux, enough so it was pretty familiar territory. In particular the similarities between The Finder file manager and Nemo, the Cinnamon file manager, make navigation and file management very similar.
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Re: Re:

Post by Mr. T »

Pariah wrote:I can imagine if you got used to Windows switching back to OSX would be disorienting because Windows is such a weird beast.
When I was back home before coming out here I did some maintenance on my sisters Mac and even though I had not touched OSX in over 7 years it was pretty easy to figure things out because the organization of OSX is fairly similar to Linux, enough so it was pretty familiar territory. In particular the similarities between The Finder file manager and Nemo, the Cinnamon file manager, make navigation and file management very similar.

This is very true. Linux and MacOS have evolved along somewhat similar ideals, though Apple has added an additional architectural layer of "Apple stuff" into the formula --No other way to describe it. It consists of APIs, libraries, and underlying structural changes to BSD and kernel needed to support "Apple Stuff." I do like Linux and modern BSDs, but I remain in awe of what Apple has done from an OS engineering standpoint.

But yea, Windows is weird for sure. Registry sucks, permissions are overly-complicated, there's some bad decisions around DLLs vs static linking... But I think the most embarrassing case of "Weird design" is how they handle System Settings. There's two competing control panel UIs --Certain settings are changed in one, certain settings are changed in the other. Then, on top of that, certain settings are changed in neither, instead relegated to separate utilities.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by maurvir »

Windows is a complete human waste show because it is trying to support stupid decisions from 30 years ago. That, and it has a UI designed by masochist uncouth individuals.
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Post by Mr. T »

maurvir wrote: Windows is a complete human waste show because it is trying to support stupid decisions from 30 years ago. That, and it has a UI designed by masochist uncouth individuals.

Yup, and to pile on because it's fun, they still mount drives by letter of the alphabet --It's the default option. They have two different CLIs which behave differently and serve different purposes. There is no sudo, nor is there a way to run Windows without booting to a UI. The MS-provided BlueTooth stack is utter crap. Device management is over-engineered at the system level.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

maurvir wrote: Windows is a complete human waste show because it is trying to support stupid decisions from 30 years ago. That, and it has a UI designed by masochist uncouth individuals.


it still depresses me that after all this time, microsoft has felt no obligation whatsoever to fix their product(s)

i guess market dominance is a hell of a drug
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by avkills »

Yeah the settings nightmare in Windows is insane. Pick a way to do it and stick with it.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by Pariah »

avkills wrote: Yeah the settings nightmare in Windows is insane. Pick a way to do it and stick with it.

Last time I saw Win10 there still control panels that looked unchanged since 1995 sitting right next to panels that were brand new, weird human waste, yo.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by wellfleation »

Pariah wrote: Apple has clearly knocked it out of the park with the M1 but I have to say it is hard for me to get too excited about a new architecture that will only run on about 15% of computers in the USA.
It is a great chip but a niche chip that will have as little impact on the larger computer market as practically everything else Apple has done in the last 10 years. Which is to say practically none except adding a bit of competition to the CPU market which is a good thing.
Wow, are you eating those words yet? The M1 is causing a total upheaval with Intel. Now MS is abandoning them and are trying to go Apple's route and make their own chips too. Apple certainly has caused a stir.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by wellfleation »

Bren wrote: So Apple's Web site contains much hype about the M1 Macs' gaming prowess. Is this thing truly a viable replacement for Macs with discrete graphics cards, or nah?

Yes, by a whole lot.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by macaddict4life »

wellfleation wrote:
Bren wrote: So Apple's Web site contains much hype about the M1 Macs' gaming prowess. Is this thing truly a viable replacement for Macs with discrete graphics cards, or nah?

Yes, by a whole lot.

But only for games with a macOS release.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

macaddict4life wrote:
wellfleation wrote:
Bren wrote: So Apple's Web site contains much hype about the M1 Macs' gaming prowess. Is this thing truly a viable replacement for Macs with discrete graphics cards, or nah?

Yes, by a whole lot.

But only for games with a macOS release.


i was thinking of installing windows on my air to see how gaming was, but it looks like a lot of work with minimal payoff
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by Pariah »

The new MacBook Pro will not have an Intel option among other changes.
1. The two new models are equipped with about 14-inch and 16-inch displays, respectively.
2. In terms of casing design, the new models cancel the curvy design of existing models’ top and bottom parts and adopt a flat-edged form factor design similar to the ‌iPhone 12‌.
3. The ‌MagSafe‌ charging connector design is restored.
4. The OLED touch bar is removed, and the physical function buttons are restored.
5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
6. They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/ne ... afe-ports/

Interesting that there will be no touch bar and they are reverting back to MagSafe. Both excellent choices as far as I am concerned.
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Post by TOS »

i've decided to replace my pc with a mini
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Post by Lombo »

The new iMac will be amazing. If I were you I would wait for this. New design, new soc. It will be amazing for sure.
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Re:

Post by Pariah »

TOS wrote: i've decided to replace my pc with a mini

Id wait for the second generation.
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Re: Re:

Post by TOS »

Lombo wrote: The new iMac will be amazing. If I were you I would wait for this. New design, new soc. It will be amazing for sure.


my last imac left me disliking all-in-ones

Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: i've decided to replace my pc with a mini

Id wait for the second generation.


normally yes, but the m1 is incredible so i'm not at all worried
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Post by Robert B. »

I bought a new used MBP back in March/April. If I had know the pandemic would be lasting this long and I'd be working at home the whole time, I would've tried to save a few bucks and bought a mini. :/
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Re: Re:

Post by TOS »

TOS wrote:
Lombo wrote: The new iMac will be amazing. If I were you I would wait for this. New design, new soc. It will be amazing for sure.


my last imac left me disliking all-in-ones

Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: i've decided to replace my pc with a mini

Id wait for the second generation.


normally yes, but the m1 is incredible so i'm not at all worried


wait, i just found out the new silicon mac pro will be reminiscent of the g4 cube and will have a bajillion cores

though might not be due for a couple of years
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Post by obvs »

I really want a Silly MacBook Pro.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by macaddict4life »

Pariah wrote: The new MacBook Pro will not have an Intel option among other changes.
1. The two new models are equipped with about 14-inch and 16-inch displays, respectively.
2. In terms of casing design, the new models cancel the curvy design of existing models’ top and bottom parts and adopt a flat-edged form factor design similar to the ‌iPhone 12‌.
3. The ‌MagSafe‌ charging connector design is restored.
4. The OLED touch bar is removed, and the physical function buttons are restored.
5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
6. They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/ne ... afe-ports/

Interesting that there will be no touch bar and they are reverting back to MagSafe. Both excellent choices as far as I am concerned.

I'm not sure I buy this. I know the analyst involved has a good track record and some supply chain sources. But I have a hard time seeing Apple giving up on the Touch Bar after trying so hard to promote it. I could see MagSafe coming back, hopefully not at the expense of USB-C charging, but I really hope it is via a USB C power brick and a USB C to MagSafe cable. I am really skeptical of the speculation that there's going to be that many more kinds of ports. I would actually be disappointed if Apple backed off on trying to get USB A to die. Adding SD, HDMI, or min-DP sure, awesome, whatever. The USB C situation has been pretty great, actually.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by Pariah »

macaddict4life wrote:
Pariah wrote: The new MacBook Pro will not have an Intel option among other changes.
1. The two new models are equipped with about 14-inch and 16-inch displays, respectively.
2. In terms of casing design, the new models cancel the curvy design of existing models’ top and bottom parts and adopt a flat-edged form factor design similar to the ‌iPhone 12‌.
3. The ‌MagSafe‌ charging connector design is restored.
4. The OLED touch bar is removed, and the physical function buttons are restored.
5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
6. They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/ne ... afe-ports/

Interesting that there will be no touch bar and they are reverting back to MagSafe. Both excellent choices as far as I am concerned.

I'm not sure I buy this. I know the analyst involved has a good track record and some supply chain sources. But I have a hard time seeing Apple giving up on the Touch Bar after trying so hard to promote it. I could see MagSafe coming back, hopefully not at the expense of USB-C charging, but I really hope it is via a USB C power brick and a USB C to MagSafe cable. I am really skeptical of the speculation that there's going to be that many more kinds of ports. I would actually be disappointed if Apple backed off on trying to get USB A to die. Adding SD, HDMI, or min-DP sure, awesome, whatever. The USB C situation has been pretty great, actually.

I have to admit I am kinda confused about the whole USB C thing. I can't grasp the different flavors.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

Pariah wrote:
macaddict4life wrote:
Pariah wrote: The new MacBook Pro will not have an Intel option among other changes.
1. The two new models are equipped with about 14-inch and 16-inch displays, respectively.
2. In terms of casing design, the new models cancel the curvy design of existing models’ top and bottom parts and adopt a flat-edged form factor design similar to the ‌iPhone 12‌.
3. The ‌MagSafe‌ charging connector design is restored.
4. The OLED touch bar is removed, and the physical function buttons are restored.
5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
6. They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/ne ... afe-ports/

Interesting that there will be no touch bar and they are reverting back to MagSafe. Both excellent choices as far as I am concerned.

I'm not sure I buy this. I know the analyst involved has a good track record and some supply chain sources. But I have a hard time seeing Apple giving up on the Touch Bar after trying so hard to promote it. I could see MagSafe coming back, hopefully not at the expense of USB-C charging, but I really hope it is via a USB C power brick and a USB C to MagSafe cable. I am really skeptical of the speculation that there's going to be that many more kinds of ports. I would actually be disappointed if Apple backed off on trying to get USB A to die. Adding SD, HDMI, or min-DP sure, awesome, whatever. The USB C situation has been pretty great, actually.

I have to admit I am kinda confused about the whole USB C thing. I can't grasp the different flavors.


ditto! i'm baffled, especially when you throw thunderbolt into the mix
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

macaddict4life wrote:
Pariah wrote: The new MacBook Pro will not have an Intel option among other changes.
1. The two new models are equipped with about 14-inch and 16-inch displays, respectively.
2. In terms of casing design, the new models cancel the curvy design of existing models’ top and bottom parts and adopt a flat-edged form factor design similar to the ‌iPhone 12‌.
3. The ‌MagSafe‌ charging connector design is restored.
4. The OLED touch bar is removed, and the physical function buttons are restored.
5. There is no Intel CPU option for the new models.
6. They are equipped with more types of I/O, and most users may not need to purchase additional dongles.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/15/ne ... afe-ports/

Interesting that there will be no touch bar and they are reverting back to MagSafe. Both excellent choices as far as I am concerned.

I'm not sure I buy this. I know the analyst involved has a good track record and some supply chain sources. But I have a hard time seeing Apple giving up on the Touch Bar after trying so hard to promote it. I could see MagSafe coming back, hopefully not at the expense of USB-C charging, but I really hope it is via a USB C power brick and a USB C to MagSafe cable. I am really skeptical of the speculation that there's going to be that many more kinds of ports. I would actually be disappointed if Apple backed off on trying to get USB A to die. Adding SD, HDMI, or min-DP sure, awesome, whatever. The USB C situation has been pretty great, actually.


the advent of the new chip is giving them a chance to refresh all their designs, so it seems to me that anything they're not in love with can be tossed out the airlock
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by macaddict4life »

TOS wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:47 pm
Pariah posted wrote: I have to admit I am kinda confused about the whole USB C thing. I can't grasp the different flavors.
ditto! i'm baffled, especially when you throw thunderbolt into the mix
USB C isn't so hard. USB C is the name of the connector, which can be connected without worrying about being upside down or not. The easiest thing to remember is that USB C is always at least 10 Gbps, and if it supports PD can deliver higher power levels (up to 100W).

Thunderbolt 3 is actually a different connection using the same connector. All TB3 ports are also USB C ports, but not all USB C ports have to the TB3 ports. If it is a TB3 port, it supports up to 40 Gbps when connected to a TB3 device with a proper TB3 cable (there are also cheaper TB3 cables that only support half speed).

For me, on a daily basis, that's all I ever really need to know. The reality is that most things you are connecting won't care what USB standard is involved, and the only time you should really pay attention is if you are buying something like an external SSD or SSD enclosure that you want to run as fast as possible, or USB PD support if you want to be able to charge or run higher-demand devices (like if you want a battery pack to use with a Switch).


That said, when I was about to build my PC I did a bunch of extra research and learned the rest:

Technically there's now two (soon to be three) versions of the USB standard over the USB C connection, 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps), 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20 Gbps), and upcoming USB 4 (40 Gbps). The 10 Gbps standard can also be found on a USB A connector, but the faster standards are USB C exclusive.

Thunderbolt 4 is also coming, but it doesn't increase the existing 40 Gbps max speed, so most people won't care. It does have some requirements beyond speed that should make it better for eGPUs and other things that use PCIe over Thunderbolt, and I think it also requires laptops to be able to charge off of the TB4 port.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

[brain melts]
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

seriously thanks for that explanation, i know i’ll get the hang of it eventually
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by juice »

TOS wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:23 pm seriously thanks for that explanation, i know i’ll get the hang of it eventually
Just in time for the next new thing
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by Pariah »

Progress is being made getting Linux on an M1 Mac.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/01 ... u-can-too/
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

there’s talk of an m1 macbook pro with an 18” screen in the works
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by Robert B. »

So what happens to the Hackintosh game after this? Will there be patches to make future OS X releases to work on Intel, or does Hackintosh OS X fork from here?
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by ukimalefu »

I guess while apple still makes os x for intel, it could be made to work for a hackintosh

but "patching the M1 os x to work on intel"... if that's what you're asking, I don't think that's possible. I mean, a port is not done with a patch... but I'm not 100% sure

I think the true is that hackintoshes are going away for good, but you still have a few years to play around. I'd say 3 years after the last intel mac ships, so maybe 5 years from now.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by TOS »

i could see apple being ballsy enough to announce a "fiddlesticks windows" policy, abandoning bootcamp once and for all, abandoning everyone in the intel world ... maybe offering one more os upgrade as the last one that isn't for silicon
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by maurvir »

See, this is where it gets interesting. Right now, Apple has switched their laptops and minis to ARM, but not the pro machines. I suspect that is in part due to the memory issue, where the M1 is limited to 16GB of RAM. Once Apple starts releasing all of their machines with ARM SoCs, though, I think the handwriting will appear on the wall.

Hackintoshing won't fork, it will die - about 3 major revisions after the last Intel Mac is released. You might be able to run it under an emulator, but the days of running Mac OS natively on non-Apple hardware is coming to an end.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by obvs »

Hackintoshing might work, but only for ARM-based machines running other operating systems like Windows.

I suspect that the ARM version of Windows is the future for that platform, so I am not convinced hackintoshing is dead.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by maurvir »

obvs wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:44 pm Hackintoshing might work, but only for ARM-based machines running other operating systems like Windows.

I suspect that the ARM version of Windows is the future for that platform, so I am not convinced hackintoshing is dead.
I wish I were so optimistic, but there is no equivalent of UEFI for ARM machines, and there are no guaranteed commonalities beyond the instruction set itself. Bootloaders on ARM are much more bare metal than they are on Intel machines. Not to mention that the whole point of going with an SoC is that they are inherently bespoke, artisanal designs that won't have squat in common.

With Intel based machines, you not only could count on the CPU, but for the most part, the infrastructure around it. Sure, peripherals could be a mess, but even Apple pretty much hewed to the HID USB concept, so you could get basic functionality up pretty quickly. Standard chipsets from either nVidia, AMD, or even Intel itself meant that you could take driver code from Linux or Windows and port it fairly quickly.

Now? Toss all that out the window. Oh, and Apple actively hates you, so they aren't going to release anything about the hardware itself. It's metal or go smurf yourself in the corner.

I may be wrong, and I kind of hope I am, but I believe hackintoshing as we know it today is probably about over. Who knows, though - never say never.
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Re: M1 - wow

Post by ukimalefu »

Apple did say that windows on apple silicon is up to microsoft....

And right now ARM windows PCs are a joke, even for those who allegedly like windows. The best review I've seen is they're "not so bad".

So... maybe...?
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