Anyone know both Microsoft Teams and GSuite for Education?

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My school district (not exactly what it is but close enough) is using a centrally administered GSuite for Education implementation. However it's left us using a bunch of scattered services, including Trello, Slack, and others. Plus Google Docs really is awful, and Google Drive is so strangely implemented. Since we can also get Teams for Education fo free, I've been working with IT to get Teams set up for us for our campus only.

Unfortunately, where things stand, we will be using GSuite for email, and Teams/Office365 for everything else, with contacts being a wobbler that some may use in one system and others use in the other system (I'm also hoping to get a centralized contact directory set up on the exchange side of things). This is less than ideal, but it should work. Contacts are one of the places I'm most worried about confusion here. I also really want users to be able to use Outlook Online from the same Office portal they can use to get to Word Online and everything else to get to their email.

I'm looking to see if there's any way to improve this arrangement. It does look like GSuite would support us moving mail service over to Exchange for select users, but I'm not sure how hard this is or whether IT will complain. Also, us being able to use Google for authentication is critical, because our absolutely abominable homespun HR and accounting systems only support Google Account authentication.

The other alternative I'm seeing could be dual-delivery, which appears to deliver messages in two places, in this case both GSuite and Exchange. I don't love this solution, because I know some users will end up logging into different places at different times, and end up confused.

Is anyone familiar enough with both systems to know whether we can move mail service and still have our Google Accounts working for authentication? Anyone know of a better solution that what I'm considering?
Malkin kick 'em in the face; taste the body
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Not criticizing, but trying to clarify:

Why are you using scattered services? For example, why are you using slack instead of http://chat.google.com ?

What do you find awful about Google Docs?

What issues are you having with the implementation of Google Drive?

I would make a strong attempt to simplify and go Google only. Mixing the two worlds is going to be painful, especially for end users. Google ain't perfect, but especially for remote work and collaboration and support on student devices, it's going to be a lot better than Microsoft.
TOS
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yeah, it's weird to use so many apps ... around here it's all just google

some teachers tried using zoom but it went bad real quick
Most of the things that went bad for Zoom is because people are idiots.
Malkin posted:
Not criticizing, but trying to clarify:

Why are you using scattered services? For example, why are you using slack instead of http://chat.google.com ?

What do you find awful about Google Docs?

What issues are you having with the implementation of Google Drive?

I would make a strong attempt to simplify and go Google only. Mixing the two worlds is going to be painful, especially for end users. Google ain't perfect, but especially for remote work and collaboration and support on student devices, it's going to be a lot better than Microsoft.

Want to hear something funny? I talked with several people, including someone who works for Google, about alternatives to Slack, and none of them were familiar with Google chat or mentioned it at all.

Services are currently scattered because we inherited a mess. The school was using Google, sort of in some ways, and Slack. I've also found no Google alternative to Trello for keeping some things organized. A lot of things aren't being used well, in part because they are decentralized. Other things are redundant, for example we are using Google Classroom, but everything it does could be done through our School Information System and it's assignment and gradebook features, so there is no reason for us to be using it.

I find Docs remarkably awful in every way. I don't want to use my word processing software through my browser, the interface is ugly and poorly designed, and there's just no way it works better than Word and/or Office Online. Plus it makes submissions harder if you are using systems other than Google Classroom.

Drive is frustrating. For example, you cannot link a folder in a Google Shared Drive. You can link a file. You can attach a folder to a Trello card, because the API support folder access. But you cannot link a folder. This is something I find myself wanting to do ALL THE TIME. OneDrive supports this without problem.

The long and the short of it is that, from everything I've seen, Microsoft's tools are pretty uniformly better, with better, more responsive customer support, better centralization through Teams, and basically just easier to use support for all kinds of features. Moving to teams will let us phase out the Trello, since linking folders is actually one of the main things we do with it, and shared OneNote notebooks or a Team Wiki will better serve the other functions. It will simplify our shared file system, since Teams channels automatically become SharePoint/OneDrive folders. It will mean people will know where to find things more readily, a big problem with Google Drive. It will make it easy to integrate students and connect them to homeroom teachers. It makes it easier to put together a group calendar shared among a team.

The one piece missing is email. But actually since I posed this I may have found a solution. Apparently GSuite supports split delivery, so the existing Google Accounts could stay intact, and mail would just be delivered to the Office365 Exchange server instead of the Gmail account. I've asked IT to look into it.

Just to clarify, it's staff using the range of apps right now. Students only use GSuite (primarily Gmail and Google Classroom), our school information system, and some specific educational services. However moving to Teams will also likely result in the students using Teams, as a tool for homeroom communication.
Malkin kick 'em in the face; taste the body
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To be fair, there plenty of non-Google services I prefer and use. Slack is one of them. But if you're too far spread out, Google Chat is your equivalent.

Zoom is far superior to Google Hangouts/Meet as far as the reliability of the connection goes. But Hangouts is still a very functional product.

I use Jira and there isn't a great Trello alternative in the Googleverse. Google can integrate well with Trello though. Depending on what features you're actually using, http://keep.google.com or http://jamboard.google.com might do the trick.

Google Classroom isn't my favorite LMS either, but it's accessible for schools and integrates well with other Google products. In the end, it works.

I'm sorry you don't like Docs. For anything short of preparing a formal manuscript for publication, I find its features to be far superior to Word. There is nothing better for collaborating. I don't see how it makes submissions any harder: How is File -> Download any worse than File -> Save? Plus if you are using Google Classroom, submissions can automatically be handled if you want.

I do not think Google does a great job at explaining Shared Drives, which used to be called team drives. They really are meant just for internal working teams. They are not designed to be public. You can share individual files, but if you were making a public link to an entire folder, it would probably be better for permission management to simply make a shared drive that was entirely public or to the audience you are intending it for. If someone needs regular access to multiple files on the Shared Drive, they should just be on the team/group.

If you want to share links to folders in the way you describe, you can do that from My Drive.

I'd be curious as to how much your institution is paying for licensing for all of the different products. At some point, money becomes another factor when trying to manage an array of different products and get them to play nice.

I feel ya!
TOS
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avkills posted:
Most of the things that went bad for Zoom is because people are idiots.


if you're doing stuff with adolescents, you should bank on them doing stupid and/or awful human waste
Malkin kick 'em in the face; taste the body
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TOS posted:
avkills posted:
Most of the things that went bad for Zoom is because people are idiots.


if you're doing stuff with adolescents, you should bank on them doing stupid and/or awful human waste


People hosted completely open sessions and advertised them publicly on the web.

Users could have turned on security features, but were ignorant and didn't and then freaked out about getting "hacked".

All things considered, the Zoom team responded very rapidly and effectively to save users from themselves. Most of the security settings are on by default now.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Malkin posted:
TOS posted:
avkills posted:
Most of the things that went bad for Zoom is because people are idiots.


if you're doing stuff with adolescents, you should bank on them doing stupid and/or awful human waste


People hosted completely open sessions and advertised them publicly on the web.

Users could have turned on security features, but were ignorant and didn't and then freaked out about getting "hacked".

All things considered, the Zoom team responded very rapidly and effectively to save users from themselves. Most of the security settings are on by default now.

Bad defaults settings are always the fault of the developers because developers have to assume that with a mass market tool, most people will simply use what ever the defaults are. Digging into the settings is a power user move.
Malkin kick 'em in the face; taste the body
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I generally agree, but the only thing that made Zoom a mass market tool on the scale it now is was the pandemic. Before that, it wasn't on many people's radars and wasn't exactly marketed to all of the audiences who have ended up using it. They couldn't have predicted the explosion in both numbers and types of users.
Malkin posted:
To be fair, there plenty of non-Google services I prefer and use. Slack is one of them. But if you're too far spread out, Google Chat is your equivalent.

Zoom is far superior to Google Hangouts/Meet as far as the reliability of the connection goes. But Hangouts is still a very functional product.

I use Jira and there isn't a great Trello alternative in the Googleverse. Google can integrate well with Trello though. Depending on what features you're actually using, http://keep.google.com or http://jamboard.google.com might do the trick.

Google Classroom isn't my favorite LMS either, but it's accessible for schools and integrates well with other Google products. In the end, it works.

I'm sorry you don't like Docs. For anything short of preparing a formal manuscript for publication, I find its features to be far superior to Word. There is nothing better for collaborating. I don't see how it makes submissions any harder: How is File -> Download any worse than File -> Save? Plus if you are using Google Classroom, submissions can automatically be handled if you want.

I do not think Google does a great job at explaining Shared Drives, which used to be called team drives. They really are meant just for internal working teams. They are not designed to be public. You can share individual files, but if you were making a public link to an entire folder, it would probably be better for permission management to simply make a shared drive that was entirely public or to the audience you are intending it for. If someone needs regular access to multiple files on the Shared Drive, they should just be on the team/group.

If you want to share links to folders in the way you describe, you can do that from My Drive.

I'd be curious as to how much your institution is paying for licensing for all of the different products. At some point, money becomes another factor when trying to manage an array of different products and get them to play nice.

I feel ya!

We are too spread out, and I want everything as centralized as possible. I really think Teams is doing a better job of that. Also, the quality of their customer service... I filed a support request, they emailed me from a local support center (Singapore, 1 time zone away, English speaking), and then when they didn't hear from me for a bit they also called me to follow up and be sure everything was ok. Just blew my mind.

I agree that Zoom is better than Meet! But we do not use it much, and the lack of needing to install software is a big advantage for Meet. Meet is the one thing I might keep doing through Google, though I really only use it for interviews. I've not actually tried out Teams for this, since it's not something we use much (fingers crossed).

Plan definitely doesn't look as good as Trello, but it is serviceable and in the same place as everything else, which is nice. I think we will use it for fewer things anyway, as shared OneNotes seem better for organizing a lot of what we were doing on Trello.

Google Classroom is often frustrating. I agree, it works, but coming from Edmodo it was a real letdown. But, as I mentioned, our SIS has built in LMS features, so I don't see a reason to use both.

For Docs, I guess part of it depends on how you tend to use it. I always suggest that people sync their OneDrive, so there is a file ready to attach on the computer anyway. Also, I have a hard time getting students to submit files rather than Google Docs share links.

I agree about Drive. The thing is, I don't want to make anything public! I just want to be able to link a folder for the convenience of other folks I'm working with. Like, "Ok everyone, here's the folder we will use for this project. Put anything related to it here. Link. I want it to be public and easy to find later, but also able to be linked for the convenience of others.

We actually aren't paying for anything but the domain. GSuite for Education and Office A1 Student/Faculty are free for schools. Trello and Slack have been used in the free implementations, with Trello Gold on most of the boards because I referred a billion teachers (until they capped the number of referral months; eventually I'll be running out). Having an installable app that puts a ton of things in one place and no longer using restricted (and subject to change) free tiers is a big incentive for Teams.

I should note that Office A1 does NOT include the office apps, only the web versions, but the account integrates with the office apps the users already own if they have them. Another license, I think it's B1, includes the apps, but is not free. B1 is something I would like to see the school purchase in the future, at the minimum for all staff, and ideally for all students as well.
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Anyone know both Microsoft Teams and GSuite for Education?