So there might be a black hole in our solar system

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"Is there a black hole hiding right here in our solar system?"

Remember the dictum concerning ALL news headlines: if the headline is a question, the answer is almost certainly "no".

It IS an intriguing idea, and we do NOT have any experience with such primordial black holes--which could be smaller than any stellar black holes which have a LOWER limit of about 2.6 times the mass of the Sun (otherwise any less-massive star remnants following going nova will form neutron stars instead)--because we simply cannot detect any tiny black holes which are not actively "eating" (which is an argument for their rarity because even tiny but active black holes should be easily detectable from great distances away).

While there may be a lot of mass out in the Sun's Oort Cloud it is spread MIGHTY thin and completely unlike the usual depictions of asteroid "fields". But if that tiny black hole had encountered just one tiny Oort Cloud body, it would have been lit up for years if not centuries while that encountered body would have formed an accretion disk and taken its time to be "eaten" because the smaller the black hole is, the longer it takes for ANYTHING normal* to be absorbed. And even after that accretion disk had been "completely" absorbed, because of the mechanics of black holes as we currently understand them (which of course may be wrong) there should have been considerable remnants that had bled out as jets from that black hole's poles.

* meaning not other black holes and neutron stars. Read here for...well, not an explanation, but how we know that black holes interacting with other or a neutron star is simply different from a black hole absorbing normal matter.

EDIT: added the bit about neutron stars in my footnote. That should also be applied to my linked post as well, but since that post preceded the LIGO detection of a black hole absorbing a neutron star I will let that post be.

Last edited by DEyncourt on Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:22 am.

Vulture 420
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I've been hearing so much about black holes lately, I wouldn't be surprised if it was reported that we are in a black hole. We've come a long way from Einstein saying he didn't believe black holes exist to suggesting black holes are everywhere we look.
macnuke Afar
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it's called the U.S. Government
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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DEyncourt posted:


in case you don't want to watch that (I haven't), I'd say just stay away from it. Far away. Like really faaaaar, and you should be safe.
ukimalefu posted:
DEyncourt posted:


in case you don't want to watch that (I haven't), I'd say just stay away from it. Far away. Like really faaaaar, and you should be safe.

Well, then, uki doesn't have to watch it since he is repeating that video's FIRST message (though not necessarily THAT far away), but watch it anyway because it is fun to watch.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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DEyncourt posted:
ukimalefu posted:
DEyncourt posted:


in case you don't want to watch that (I haven't), I'd say just stay away from it. Far away. Like really faaaaar, and you should be safe.

Well, then, uki doesn't have to watch it since he is repeating that video's FIRST message (though not necessarily THAT far away), but watch it anyway because it is fun to watch.


ok, sorry, I'll watch it

*clicks link*
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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Done, watched it. Cool and short.

ok, sorry, but I WANT TO BELIEVE, it could be a portal to another dimension... or the entrance of a wormhole... you know, something cool. Science doesn't always has to shoot down the fun stuff.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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Vulture 420
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maurvir posted:

Yep! As long as you play your instruments while the nutjobs tell you the end of the world is near, you will survive unscathed.
TOS
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ukimalefu posted:
Done, watched it. Cool and short.

ok, sorry, but I WANT TO BELIEVE, it could be a portal to another dimension... or the entrance of a wormhole... you know, something cool. Science doesn't always has to shoot down the fun stuff.


google: white hole
dv
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TOS posted:
ukimalefu posted:
Done, watched it. Cool and short.

ok, sorry, but I WANT TO BELIEVE, it could be a portal to another dimension... or the entrance of a wormhole... you know, something cool. Science doesn't always has to shoot down the fun stuff.


google: white hole


xhamster: white hole
ukimalefu posted:
Done, watched it. Cool and short.

ok, sorry, but I WANT TO BELIEVE, it could be a portal to another dimension... or the entrance of a wormhole... you know, something cool. Science doesn't always has to shoot down the fun stuff.

Sure, but science just IS, it doesn't have to be compelling.

For example: say EVERY black hole really is an entrance into another universe BUT one in which not every characteristic of OUR universe applies. Ignoring the problem of spaghettification, what if there was just one small difference such as an imbalance between the charge held by protons being 1% larger than that of electrons? Well, any observer would only see a universe filled with a cloud of slightly positively-charged "neutrons" with maybe some neutrons stars since the only meaningful force within that universe would be gravity. And if that rule applied to EVERYTHING within that universe, then that observer wouldn't last too long as its atoms--being made up of proton-electron pairs along with neutrons--would collapse into neutrons as well.

So a universe waiting 10^40 years or its next instant (since time in this universe has no way of being measured so really is meaningless) for its next Big Bang.
Vulture 420
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I predict that spaghettification is not a problem because spacetime is also being spaghettified, so any individual in the spacetime would not even experience any harmful effects.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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Vulture posted:
I predict that spaghettification is not a problem because spacetime is also being spaghettified, so any individual in the spacetime would not even experience any harmful effects.


Well yeah, in a certain way. If you're there being spaghettified, it would take forever, for you.
Vulture posted:
I predict that spaghettification is not a problem because spacetime is also being spaghettified, so any individual in the spacetime would not even experience any harmful effects.

Actually you are looking at the problem from the wrong POV. Spacetime IS being "spaghettified" but the problem is that normal matter cannot keep up. I did try to explain this in the first part of this post in that Interstellar thread. Since there I was explaining why the astronaut Cooper was NOT spaghettified while entering the event horizon of the supermassive black hole in Interstellar, please understand that the bad effects of spaghettification would begin some distance outside the event horizon of any smaller stellar black holes. It would be such that even in so-called freefall while in orbit around such a black hole, the micro-gravity effects inside a ship could be enough to spaghettify a person (and that ship too).
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DEyncourt posted:
Vulture posted:
I predict that spaghettification is not a problem because spacetime is also being spaghettified, so any individual in the spacetime would not even experience any harmful effects.

Actually you are looking at the problem from the wrong POV. Spacetime IS being "spaghettified" but the problem is that normal matter cannot keep up. I did try to explain this in the first part of this post in that Interstellar thread. Since there I was explaining why the astronaut Cooper was NOT spaghettified while entering the event horizon of the supermassive black hole in Interstellar, please understand that the bad effects of spaghettification would begin some distance outside the event horizon of any smaller stellar black holes. It would be such that even in so-called freefall while in orbit around such a black hole, the micro-gravity effects inside a ship could be enough to spaghettify a person (and that ship too).

Ah, dammit, I knew there would be a catch.
ukimalefu posted:
Vulture posted:
I predict that spaghettification is not a problem because spacetime is also being spaghettified, so any individual in the spacetime would not even experience any harmful effects.


Well yeah, in a certain way. If you're there being spaghettified, it would take forever, for you.

No, not quite right. Any observers well outside the zone of time compression close to a black hole would see the person slowly being spaghettified while the red shift of the black hole's gravity well would shift all outgoing light towards blackness.

ON that person's ship, time would progress "normally" because that person would see the reverse of that time compression looking outward. All activities outside of that time compression zone would leap forward in time in smoothly but increasingly faster bits, well, until death by spaghettification or other problems induced by gravity like being smashed into the bulkhead of the ship by tidal forces if that person was not in the center of gravity of the ship (assuming that the ship would better withstand the extreme strain of spaghettification).
Vulture 420
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I remember when I used to eat spaghetti. That was like 20 years ago. Ronzoni Perciatelli No.6 al dente to be exact.
The last time I had spaghetti I made spaghetti squids by threading the spaghetti though cut up hotdogs.
TOS
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i hear there's a black hole in uki's solar system
TOS posted:
i hear there's a black hole in uki's solar system

Whearabouts? Hovering around the seventh planet?
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
i hear there's a black hole in uki's solar system

Whearabouts? Hovering around the seventh planet?


stay away from my event horizon
ukimalefu posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
i hear there's a black hole in uki's solar system

Whearabouts? Hovering around the seventh planet?


stay away from my event horizon

You don't want any noodling in there?
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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Betonhaus posted:
ukimalefu posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
i hear there's a black hole in uki's solar system

Whearabouts? Hovering around the seventh planet?


stay away from my event horizon

You don't want any noodling in there?


if you get too close, it's inevitable

and for... someone's point of view, it will last forever... light speed relativity is confusing
Chef Boy-ar-dee should do a product tie-in with a newly discovered black hole.
COMMERCIAL--wide-shot of a classroom. At the front Neil deGrasse Tyson is waxing eloquently about black holes and the effects of spaghettification.

The camera focuses in a pair of students eating some spaghetti.

STUDENT 1: Are you listening?

STUDENT 2: Nah, I just came for the spaghetti.

ANNOUNCER: Chef Boy-ar-dee! Enjoyed by students everywhere!
Heh, that scientific paper proposing the possibility of a primordial black hole (PBH) in the FAR outer Solar System included a 1:1 illustration for a low-mass PBH:

Image

On my MBP that dot is about 7.5 cm wide but it should be 9 cm wide (that paper gave a radius of 4.5 cm).

The notation of "M⊕" (that ⊕ should be in subscript) means Earth masses.
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So there might be a black hole in our solar system