Hey, Pariah! ANOTHER reason not to buy new Apple stuff

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Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note
dv
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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We got our daughter a HP X360 convertible. It's essentially a laptop, but you can flip the screen around and use it as a tablet. Not a bad idea, really.
maurvir posted:
We got our daughter a HP X360 convertible. It's essentially a laptop, but you can flip the screen around and use it as a tablet. Not a bad idea, really.

alternative is to duct tape an iPad to the bottom of your MacBook.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]
dv
User avatar
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.


You're confused.

When I'm talking about 2-in-1s, I'm not talking about some pissant tablet with a mostly-attached keyboard, like those iPad convertible keyboard cases or something. I'm talking about a proper Macbook-Pro class laptop, but with a 360° hinge.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/laptops ... n-1-laptop

It's a very nice laptop (my housemate has one) but a 4 pound tablet is not useful as such.
dv posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.


You're confused.

When I'm talking about 2-in-1s, I'm not talking about some pissant tablet with a mostly-attached keyboard, like those iPad convertible keyboard cases or something. I'm talking about a proper Macbook-Pro class laptop, but with a 360° hinge.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/laptops ... n-1-laptop

It's a very nice laptop (my housemate has one) but a 4 pound tablet is not useful as such.

those 11-inch Lenovo Yogas are pretty nice, and with the bracelet hinge they are arguably more rigid than a MacBook Air and are slightly thinner in a couple cases.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.

I said touch bit, not touchscreen. You're acting as if making a display touch sensitive makes it massively thick in reality it's just a digitizer layer added onto an existing screen.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.

I said touch bit, not touchscreen. You're acting as if making a display touch sensitive makes it massively thick in reality it's just a digitizer layer added onto an existing screen.

Oh I know the touch layer is thin but it ain't much use without the supporting back-lighting, CPU, GPU and so on. Add a KB and mouse and you have more bulk than a touch enabled laptop which comes with a decent KB instead of those flat pieces of human waste that double as a tablet case.
dv
User avatar
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.


Why do you have old crappy tablets? ;) :p
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.

I said touch bit, not touchscreen. You're acting as if making a display touch sensitive makes it massively thick in reality it's just a digitizer layer added onto an existing screen.

Oh I know the touch layer is thin but it ain't much use without the supporting back-lighting, CPU, GPU and so on. Add a KB and mouse and you have more bulk than a touch enabled laptop which comes with a decent KB instead of those flat pieces of human waste that double as a tablet case.

...ahh, I think i see where the confusion lies. You're thinking I'm referring to a detachable and not a 2-in-1 with a 360 degree hinge.

Also there's this thing now: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/1/1791 ... lease-date
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiap ... cb81e37e9f

Seems Apple decided to drop almost all Nvidia support with Mojave without warning anyone, even the latest top of the line professional cards.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.

I said touch bit, not touchscreen. You're acting as if making a display touch sensitive makes it massively thick in reality it's just a digitizer layer added onto an existing screen.

Oh I know the touch layer is thin but it ain't much use without the supporting back-lighting, CPU, GPU and so on. Add a KB and mouse and you have more bulk than a touch enabled laptop which comes with a decent KB instead of those flat pieces of human waste that double as a tablet case.

...ahh, I think i see where the confusion lies. You're thinking I'm referring to a detachable and not a 2-in-1 with a 360 degree hinge.

Also there's this thing now: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/1/1791 ... lease-date

I was talking about Tablets, convertibles are not tablets.
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.

Most of the statistics saying that don't count Windows 2 in 1s as tablets, an important note


They're not tablets. They're laptops.

I don't know anybody with a 2-in-1 that uses it as a tablet; it's just an incidental feature that some of the better ultrabooks happen to have.

Yep.
Once you add a KB and mouse to a "tablet" it becomes a modular portable PC that is thicker and weaker than something like an Macbook Air.

[citation needed]

Do the math: Tablet+KB+Mouse.

Technically it is touchscreen + KB + mouse VS screen + KB + mouse, and the touch bit is thinner than a sheet of paper.

How about you go ahead and link me to a touch screen that is as thin as a sheet of paper because I sure as hell have never see one or heard of one that thin.
I have two tablets, one is a 1/2 thick and the other is 3/8in thick, without a case.

I said touch bit, not touchscreen. You're acting as if making a display touch sensitive makes it massively thick in reality it's just a digitizer layer added onto an existing screen.

Oh I know the touch layer is thin but it ain't much use without the supporting back-lighting, CPU, GPU and so on. Add a KB and mouse and you have more bulk than a touch enabled laptop which comes with a decent KB instead of those flat pieces of human waste that double as a tablet case.

...ahh, I think i see where the confusion lies. You're thinking I'm referring to a detachable and not a 2-in-1 with a 360 degree hinge.

Also there's this thing now: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/1/1791 ... lease-date

I was talking about Tablets, convertibles are not tablets.

We were talking about convertibles, not tablets.
Betonhaus posted:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiap ... cb81e37e9f

Seems Apple decided to drop almost all Nvidia support with Mojave without warning anyone, even the latest top of the line professional cards.

Apple hasn't officially supported Nvidia in forever. Nvidia has tossed out web drivers for some time, but let's keep in mind that there are exactly two Mac Pro models, one from 2010 and one from 2012, that have slot for a graphics card and Mojave support.

I guarantee you most of the folks complaining are running hacktinosh systems and went with Nvidia GPUs, something they knew (if they did even minimal research) required web driver support. Those webdrivers have taken as much as 9 months to come out after a macOS release, and doubts about their future viability have been well known in the hackintosh community for a long time now. Similarly, Nvidia eGPU support requires disabling SIP, installing a system hack, and installing a web driver.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... -time.html

Not good if you use your device in a professional setting, especially losing access to MDM software.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... -time.html

Not good if you use your device in a professional setting, especially losing access to MDM software.


I wish either Apple or Google one would get their crap together. It would be nice to have at least one of the two not suck in some way. :squint:

Personally, I'd prefer iOS if Apple would open up side-loading and the file system, but since that isn't going to happen without a massive lawsuit, Android it is for now.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Betonhaus posted:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... -time.html

Not good if you use your device in a professional setting, especially losing access to MDM software.

No surprise here. Apple has never given a single fiddlesticks about screwing customers or developers. That is baked into Apples DNA.
maurvir posted:
Betonhaus posted:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... -time.html

Not good if you use your device in a professional setting, especially losing access to MDM software.


I wish either Apple or Google one would get their crap together. It would be nice to have at least one of the two not suck in some way. :squint:

Personally, I'd prefer iOS if Apple would open up side-loading and the file system, but since that isn't going to happen without a massive lawsuit, Android it is for now.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/20/1747 ... -explainer
You might get that lawsuit. But honestly, having to force everything through the App Store does put a damper on things, especially the iPad Pro. So many use cases are restricted because you cant run compile and run your own code or open source, and even if you do find an app you run the risk of Apple arbitrarily pulling it with no backup. At least give us the choice, even if it means bringing it to an Apple store so a tech can unlock it for you and make sure you know what the liabilities are.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
User avatar
It really is a shame, too - because iOS would be a no-brainer otherwise. Seriously, it is so far ahead of Android it's not even funny - even with the bugs.
maurvir posted:
It really is a shame, too - because iOS would be a no-brainer otherwise. Seriously, it is so far ahead of Android it's not even funny - even with the bugs.

I'll take your word for that. The last time I touched an iPhone was trying to fix my mom's wifi which I was unsuccessful, and I found I didn't have the shortcuts I'm used to.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
iOS and Android both suck but in very different ways.
For me the most attractive aspect of an iPhone is you get updates for around 3 years.
With Android it is very common to never get updates which is a level of irresponsible negligence I just cannot abide.
IMHO keeping a device updated in the OS developers job and Google completely shirks that responsibility.
Mostly that Google gave the responsibility to the manufacturers. They came out with two different updates that are supposed to mean they can push an update out easily and quickly but few manufacturers take advantage of that. Not even BlackBerry does full updates, but they at least do the security updates. Windows Mobile had prompt updates though, and even let you join the beta program easily enough. I missed that.

BB7 was epic though. The OS was comprised of modules which you could easily swap out willy nilly, so if an update made your radio wasteful you could replace the radio module with the older version but still keep the rest of the update. The whole os was slow and clunky, but that level of control was fun.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Betonhaus posted:
Mostly that Google gave the responsibility to the manufacturers. They came out with two different updates that are supposed to mean they can push an update out easily and quickly but few manufacturers take advantage of that.

That is the whole problem, the control Google gave to OEMs, not even Microsoft ever did such a stupid and irresponsible thing.
Don't blame the OEMs, it's like blaming a rattle snake for biting you, it is in their nature and predictable as the sun rising in the East.
This is 100% on Google.
https://9to5mac.com/2018/12/15/lawsuit- ... the-notch/

I gotta be honest, I did think it was pretty weird when the XS marketing hid the notch especially when the X marketing and the OS itself had it so prominent. I doubt it's enough to win a case, but I can see many people expecting something different after seeing the official marketing information, then being disappointed when literally the OS itself wastes no opportunities to highlight the notch.

Meanwhile on my phone I got the ears blacked off, which makes the phone appear symmetric with the fingerprint reader and generally looks nice with the appearance that notifications are pushed off of the main screen area.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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I don't think false advertising or fraud are illegal anymore if a big corp does it.
Betonhaus posted:


You're looking at it wrong! Yeah I just saw this; WTF! Side effect of the manufacturing process my ass.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
User avatar
yeah, unacceptable
Many people use backpacks or soft sided carrier bags. The curve isn't a flaw, it's conformal.
TOS
User avatar
Pariah posted:
I don't think false advertising or fraud are illegal anymore if a big corp does it.


just like monopolies
Four months after its debut, sneaky Mac malware went undetected by AV providers

The interesting bit is that Apple apparently knew about it but didn't tell anyone.
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Hey, Pariah! ANOTHER reason not to buy new Apple stuff

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