Hey, Pariah! ANOTHER reason not to buy new Apple stuff

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"Apple's New Hardware With The T2 Security Chip Will Currently Block Linux From Booting".

Those Macs with the T2 chip have a new System Preference panel called Startup Security Utility (pictured below which is from Apple) which can give the user the option to disable some or all of security, but apparently the T2 chip stops access to the internal drive when "No Security" is selected. That restriction also applies to booting up with any version of Windows.

Image

So far I haven't read anyone mentioning those "External Boot" options, and whether or not using the option to boot from an external drive would allow Linux or Windows to bootup a Mac with the T2 security chip.
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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That utility isn't exactly new. They just added some stuff to Firmware Password Utility. It's on the recovery partition and used to be on the optical media OS X used to ship on.
maurvir Outlier
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Walled garden. I'm amazed it took as long as it did.

Now, any takers on when MacOS refuses to boot on commodity hardware?
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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Apple will move to a different architecture soon.

:shrug:
obvs posted:
Apple will move to a different architecture soon.

:shrug:

So probably when the last Intel Mac becomes depreciated.


But then there will be an interesting scenario:

Apple will sell iPads and MacBooks
They run the same processor
They nearly run the same OS
They nearly run the same apps

And yet they refuse to converge the two, despite Microsoft showing it's possible and Apple having the clout needed to force developers to comply.

...I don't know what apple is thinking.
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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I don't think Apple will refuse to converge the two.

I think they'll just lie about it until the very last minute, so as not to cannibalize sales of their current lineup.
obvs posted:
I don't think Apple will refuse to converge the two.

I think they'll just lie about it until the very last minute, so as not to cannibalize sales of their current lineup.

Considering how long it took them to update the MacBook Air and other devices I doubt that. Apple seems to love selling devices long past their sell by date.

I haven't really been watching the rumourmaill that closely, but Apple has made it adamantly clear that they are refusing to even ever consider merging the two, so if it turns out they were lying that'd be a really stupid annoyance, right along the lines of a major studio blatantly denying a major plot twist in the season finale no matter how obvious it is only for the plot twist to go exactly as expected.

There's another thing: I strongly suspect that Apple is currently unable to ever actually handle such an undertaking anymore. Their tendency to bring bugs back to new releases long after they were supposedly patched makes me believe there is something fundamentally wrong with their development process, and they may be sitting on a heap of poorly documented patchwork code, making an undertaking such as adding a windowing environment to iOS or touch capabilities to macOS basically impossible.
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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Over the years I can't even count the number of things Apple has made "adamantly clear" before going back on them.

They are very very very focused on iOS. I say this having attended the Jamf Nation Users Conference a few weeks ago, where it was made abundantly clear. Apple was congratulating itself about making macOS more and more like iOS every day.

The fact that Apple says they're not merging means precisely nothing. They didn't update Macs because they didn't care about them anymore. They only care about Macs as far as they can merge it into their iOS family of products, and they're going to push more and more for that. They wanted desktop-class processors before they focused on moving the Macs over, so they probably designed some new cases and stuff like that to get ready, and then they decided "Hey, why don't we shove some old Intel guts into these new cases, just to squeeze another round of cash out of everyone?"
TOS
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Betonhaus posted:
obvs posted:
I don't think Apple will refuse to converge the two.

I think they'll just lie about it until the very last minute, so as not to cannibalize sales of their current lineup.

Considering how long it took them to update the MacBook Air and other devices I doubt that. Apple seems to love selling devices long past their sell by date.


they make so little money off their computers that i suspect the real issue is that apple is just investing as little money as possible into updates and upgrades

i think that's the way to look at their plans for computers: what will be the cheapest, easiest way to go?

in an age when major automakers are abandoning production of passenger cars, i think it's far more likely that apple will shut down (or sell off) their computer division than merge it with ios devices
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
obvs posted:
I don't think Apple will refuse to converge the two.

I think they'll just lie about it until the very last minute, so as not to cannibalize sales of their current lineup.

Considering how long it took them to update the MacBook Air and other devices I doubt that. Apple seems to love selling devices long past their sell by date.


they make so little money off their computers that i suspect the real issue is that apple is just investing as little money as possible into updates and upgrades

i think that's the way to look at their plans for computers: what will be the cheapest, easiest way to go?

in an age when major automakers are abandoning production of passenger cars, i think it's far more likely that apple will shut down (or sell off) their computer division than merge it with ios devices

they better port Xcode to Windows first.
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
obvs posted:
I don't think Apple will refuse to converge the two.

I think they'll just lie about it until the very last minute, so as not to cannibalize sales of their current lineup.

Considering how long it took them to update the MacBook Air and other devices I doubt that. Apple seems to love selling devices long past their sell by date.


they make so little money off their computers that i suspect the real issue is that apple is just investing as little money as possible into updates and upgrades

i think that's the way to look at their plans for computers: what will be the cheapest, easiest way to go?

in an age when major automakers are abandoning production of passenger cars, i think it's far more likely that apple will shut down (or sell off) their computer division than merge it with ios devices
That would damage their ability to control and promote iOS development over Android.
obvs posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
obvs posted:
I don't think Apple will refuse to converge the two.

I think they'll just lie about it until the very last minute, so as not to cannibalize sales of their current lineup.

Considering how long it took them to update the MacBook Air and other devices I doubt that. Apple seems to love selling devices long past their sell by date.


they make so little money off their computers that i suspect the real issue is that apple is just investing as little money as possible into updates and upgrades

i think that's the way to look at their plans for computers: what will be the cheapest, easiest way to go?

in an age when major automakers are abandoning production of passenger cars, i think it's far more likely that apple will shut down (or sell off) their computer division than merge it with ios devices
That would damage their ability to control and promote iOS development over Android.

This is probably the only reason why they keep macOS around.

That, and with macOS they can at least pretend to be "for the creators" because they are relying on a backlibrary of software like Final Cut Pro that is still Mac exclusive, and the iPhone and iPad possibly relying on that via the halo effect. Not entirely sure how much of an impact that has though.
maurvir Outlier
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At this point, more people know Apple by their iOS devices than their MacOS devices. Apple could port xCode to Windows (or self-host on iOS) and entirely drop Macs without a major hiccup.

I'm reasonably certain that the day is coming when Apple drops any pretense at general computing and does this.
TOS
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how are apple's relations with google? any chance of a partnership there? or maybe amazon?
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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maurvir posted:
At this point, more people know Apple by their iOS devices than their MacOS devices. Apple could port xCode to Windows (or self-host on iOS) and entirely drop Macs without a major hiccup.

I'm reasonably certain that the day is coming when Apple drops any pretense at general computing and does this.
The biggest issue with porting XCode to Windows and dropping macOS is that then Apple becomes dependent on Microsoft.
obvs posted:
maurvir posted:
At this point, more people know Apple by their iOS devices than their MacOS devices. Apple could port xCode to Windows (or self-host on iOS) and entirely drop Macs without a major hiccup.

I'm reasonably certain that the day is coming when Apple drops any pretense at general computing and does this.
The biggest issue with porting XCode to Windows and dropping macOS is that then Apple becomes dependent on Microsoft.

As opposed to developers being dependent on a neglected platform? Already you can do 99% of the development on a Linux or Windows PC, but then you have to go to a Mac (or use an online service that's running off a bunch of networked macs) to compile and sign the app for the app store.
obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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Apple hasn't indicated they're getting rid of Macs as a platform, and I don't see any indication that that is their intention.

I think their intention is to merge as much functionality from macOS into iOS as possible.

Becoming dependent on other platforms isn't Apple's style at all.
TOS
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obvs posted:
Apple hasn't indicated they're getting rid of Macs as a platform, and I don't see any indication that that is their intention.

I think their intention is to merge as much functionality from macOS into iOS as possible.

Becoming dependent on other platforms isn't Apple's style at all.


meanwhile i suspect big developers like adobe are eager to jump into the mobile space
maurvir Outlier
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obvs Eating chickens is for the bourgeoisie
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maurvir posted:
Yet another reason to work against Apple.
Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

Quote:
Apple has locked out many users from their Apple ID accounts, prompting password resets, according to a variety of reports on Reddit and Twitter. It seems the users were kicked out of their accounts due to security reasons, though it remains unclear what the source of the issue is. Users have reported getting Apple ID password reset notifications on the iPhone, Apple TV and other Apple devices.

Read more at MobileSyrup.com: Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

Last edited by Betonhaus on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:34 pm.

maurvir Outlier
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Betonhaus posted:
Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

Quote:
Apple has locked out many users from their Apple ID accounts, prompting password resets, according to a variety of reports on Reddit and Twitter. It seems the users were kicked out of their accounts due to security reasons, though it remains unclear what the source of the issue is. Users have reported getting Apple ID password reset notifications on the iPhone, Apple TV and other Apple devices.

Read more at MobileSyrup.com: Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset


Your timing is impeccable. I just had to do a password reset on both my wife and daughter's accounts. :squint:
Comments on the articles are wondering if Apple got hacked, as a few different people got alerts about unauthorized sign in originating from China.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Remember when Linux was the "hard to use" OS?
Betonhaus posted:
Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

Quote:
Apple has locked out many users from their Apple ID accounts, prompting password resets, according to a variety of reports on Reddit and Twitter. It seems the users were kicked out of their accounts due to security reasons, though it remains unclear what the source of the issue is. Users have reported getting Apple ID password reset notifications on the iPhone, Apple TV and other Apple devices.

Read more at MobileSyrup.com: Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

FTFY--the link originally went to a pic showing a tweet(?) quoting French President Macron. The above link goes the article being quoted.
DEyncourt posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

Quote:
Apple has locked out many users from their Apple ID accounts, prompting password resets, according to a variety of reports on Reddit and Twitter. It seems the users were kicked out of their accounts due to security reasons, though it remains unclear what the source of the issue is. Users have reported getting Apple ID password reset notifications on the iPhone, Apple TV and other Apple devices.

Read more at MobileSyrup.com: Apple locks some users out of their Apple IDs, forces password reset

FTFY--the link originally went to a pic showing a tweet(?) quoting French President Macron. The above link goes the article being quoted.

...huh. sorry.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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I ain't mad at Apple. I gave up on them making a desktop I would ever want 7 years ago when I switched to Linux. Macs are great if you have the cash and if you think it's worth it...well...God bless.
I am happy running Linux, lets all run what we like. :)
I don't really care anymore. Linux works and a 2 or 3 generation behind iPhone is great for me.
Betonhaus posted:
So probably when the last Intel Mac becomes depreciated.


But then there will be an interesting scenario:

Apple will sell iPads and MacBooks
They run the same processor
They nearly run the same OS
They nearly run the same apps

And yet they refuse to converge the two, despite Microsoft showing it's possible and Apple having the clout needed to force developers to comply.

...I don't know what apple is thinking.


I'm not confident they will run the same processor. My suspicion is that ARM Macs will use a B-series processor (or some other new name) that ups the power consumption for higher performance, since the cooling and power demand situation is more flexible on a laptop.
ukimalefu Wasn't me
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The main advantage of the "real computer", is that you can easily pirate stuff with it. It's the one thing you can't really do with an iPad (and if there's a way, like hacking it, it would be too much trouble for most people)

there, I said it
ukimalefu posted:
The main advantage of the "real computer", is that you can easily pirate stuff with it. It's the one thing you can't really do with an iPad (and if there's a way, like hacking it, it would be too much trouble for most people)

there, I said it

It's a bit more involved than that. I bet you couldn't go a week with only using an iPad and still hold that same sentiment.
ukimalefu Wasn't me
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Betonhaus posted:
ukimalefu posted:
The main advantage of the "real computer", is that you can easily pirate stuff with it. It's the one thing you can't really do with an iPad (and if there's a way, like hacking it, it would be too much trouble for most people)

there, I said it

It's a bit more involved than that. I bet you couldn't go a week with only using an iPad and still hold that same sentiment.


huh?



"real computer" = windows PC, laptop, tablet, or desktop. Or Mac. Or Linux.

iPad = not "real computer". Can't pirate stuff.
Betonhaus posted:
ukimalefu posted:
The main advantage of the "real computer", is that you can easily pirate stuff with it. It's the one thing you can't really do with an iPad (and if there's a way, like hacking it, it would be too much trouble for most people)

there, I said it

It's a bit more involved than that. I bet you couldn't go a week with only using an iPad and still hold that same sentiment.

Well, throughout my second master's degree my iPad (first a 3rd gen iPad, then right near the end an iPad Air) was my primary laptop, because my laptop was so slow. The design of iOS at the time was significantly less conducive to multitasking than it is now. However I could afford a new iPad but not a new laptop, and my iPad was so much faster than my laptop at the time that it was still a better option. I carried around a full sized bluetooth keyboard (the solar Logitech one with no number pad).
user Stupid cockwomble
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As much as I pine for a newer Apple laptop, I realize that an iPad/keyboard could be a good, useful choice for me.
maurvir Outlier
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MacAddict4Life posted:
Betonhaus posted:
ukimalefu posted:
The main advantage of the "real computer", is that you can easily pirate stuff with it. It's the one thing you can't really do with an iPad (and if there's a way, like hacking it, it would be too much trouble for most people)

there, I said it

It's a bit more involved than that. I bet you couldn't go a week with only using an iPad and still hold that same sentiment.

Well, throughout my second master's degree my iPad (first a 3rd gen iPad, then right near the end an iPad Air) was my primary laptop, because my laptop was so slow. The design of iOS at the time was significantly less conducive to multitasking than it is now. However I could afford a new iPad but not a new laptop, and my iPad was so much faster than my laptop at the time that it was still a better option. I carried around a full sized bluetooth keyboard (the solar Logitech one with no number pad).


Ironically, I often find that my tablet is more conducive to writing specifically BECAUSE it sucks at multitasking. I have a 9.7" tablet and separate BT keyboard, and I have gotten a lot of solid writing done because it is a "single purpose" machine while I have the word processor open.

Now, if I had to work with multiple files, or have spreadsheets open, it would suck.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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ukimalefu posted:
Betonhaus posted:
ukimalefu posted:
The main advantage of the "real computer", is that you can easily pirate stuff with it. It's the one thing you can't really do with an iPad (and if there's a way, like hacking it, it would be too much trouble for most people)

there, I said it

It's a bit more involved than that. I bet you couldn't go a week with only using an iPad and still hold that same sentiment.


huh?



"real computer" = windows PC, laptop, tablet, or desktop. Or Mac. Or Linux.

iPad = not "real computer". Can't pirate stuff.

iPad: Not a real computer because the user has no access to the file system
maurvir Outlier
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That, and you can't load apps outside of the App store without a developer key and a Mac.

I still find it astounding that it is nearly impossible to get data on or off of an iPad easily compared to Android, where there are multiple ways. My personal favorite is the impromptu file server running on the tablet itself.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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The whole question is moot.
Sales of tablets the last few years show they will never really matter much, they are a niche and a small one at that. Android as already begun abandoning the form-factor.
Big screen phones have killed the market for tablets.
ukimalefu Wasn't me
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Google is making chromebook tablets. Samsung has tablets too. And microsoft has windows tablets which are real computers because they run normal windows. Tablets are not over yet.

But yeah, the iPad owns that market.
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Hey, Pariah! ANOTHER reason not to buy new Apple stuff

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