Pariah's Perpetual Linux Thread.

Page: 1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26
Online now: Bing (sucks), Majestic-12 [Bot], Yori
Post Reply
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
dv posted:
Vulture posted:
Pariah posted:
Vulture posted:
Pariah posted:

I have been using Linux exclusively for 5 and a half years and have no idea what you are alluding to. I found switching to Linux so easy I barely learned anything in the process.


I can fully understand that, I tend to do weird stuff if the options are out there to do them.

dv posted:
Vulture posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Pariah posted:
Vulture posted:
Linux just feels like it's so barren that half the time that something is available for Mac and Windows, the Linux option is something I don't understand because it's all about python instead of just point and click.

I need to point out that you selected a distro that follows the Gnome Apple philosophy of removing features in the name of ease of use. You might find a full featured DE like Cinnamon to be more to your liking.


FTFY ;)

Equally true.

What I meant was that when I'm on The Internet, and things are only available for Mac and Windows, there is either no Linux version or there is some folder I can download that requires I learn python to some degree. As far as removing features, I'm not seeing any problems like that.


That actually doesn't make a lot of sense. Example?

Just by chance, I had the option of downloading an app for Mac or Windows, but the Linux download link is "Run from Source Code". I tried that, and gave up. I ended up running the Windows version in Wine (for complex reasons relating to the function of the app itself).

On the other hand, this isn't really what I want to use Linux for (pretend Mac and Windows don't exist), but I do want to explore the benefits of what Linux offers that is not available to Mac and Windows if there is such a thing. If I'm understanding the majority view, my one run-in with python language can be ignored and I should just take it easy and keep exploring. Any suggestions for Linux-Only software that really gets it right? Maybe like this specific niche list: 42 of the Best Free Linux Scientific Software

It would be nice to get this Linux machine set up in every way to emulate something like a Mac machine so a typical user could get everything they needed out of it, minus the things that really sell Apple computers through the OS like iMessages, FaceTime, and whatever else people are addicted to via their iPhones. My favorite thing about Linux right now is that your average person doesn't know about it, doesn't see it as an option, it's Open Source, and I would like to see if I can create a working environment that blows that idea out of the water and see if there will be converts whose eyes have been opened. It feels like it's about time.

I have yet to find an end user aimed piece of software that was not offered in deb, rpm and source and there is usually a PPA if you look around some.
The flow chart works like this:
Look in the software manager first if not there...
Look for a PPA, if none...
Look for a deb, if none...
Build from source but no one does that.

Now you're speaking Chinese to me man, no clue what any of that is. This is where that whole learning stuff thing seems to be needed.


Translation:

Software manager = App Store
PPA = a third party URL you can add to the software manager to get software from additional sources.
deb = like a .pkg (installer package) on the mac.
build from source = compiling it (nobody does that.)

:lol:
My bad for assuming.


The thing you want to do in Linux is prefer your distro software center or app store or what ever they call it. That is your most trusted source. If there are things you want to install that are not in your repo (software repository) the best way is to search for a PPA for that item. If what you want is at all popular your should be able to find one.
The advantage that a PPA has over installing from source or with a deb is that the PPA is added to your package manager which will then poll that PPA going forwards and if an update is released it will be handled along side all your other updates. That way you don't have to manually update an app like some sort of caveman.
The unified update system is one of if not the best thing about Linux and you want to use it always.
Vulture 420
User avatar
Ok, so help me out here in noob fashion. I'm trying to get this messaging app called "Wickr Me" or simply Wickr on the Linux machine, but it isn't part of the App Store in any searches. I go to the download page, and I can download it and even install it but it won't launch, it just acts like it launches then never opens. Easy question, how would I add this to the elementary App Store or software manager? Not so easy question, I've tried using the terminal to install this app and I get unresolved dependency issues which seem to be the cause of the install problem. There is a command to find and install dependencies, but it doesn't work to actually get anything or change anything.

So, last question, am I barking up the wrong tree thinking I can install "Wickr Me" on this version of Linux I've chosen?

If you need details on the download page and the terminal commands I've used, I can get that info together.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Vulture posted:
Ok, so help me out here in noob fashion. I'm trying to get this messaging app called "Wickr Me" or simply Wickr on the Linux machine, but it isn't part of the App Store in any searches. I go to the download page, and I can download it and even install it but it won't launch, it just acts like it launches then never opens. Easy question, how would I add this to the elementary App Store or software manager? Not so easy question, I've tried using the terminal to install this app and I get unresolved dependency issues which seem to be the cause of the install problem. There is a command to find and install dependencies, but it doesn't work to actually get anything or change anything.

So, last question, am I barking up the wrong tree thinking I can install "Wickr Me" on this version of Linux I've chosen?

If you need details on the download page and the terminal commands I've used, I can get that info together.

The WickrMe_4.03.05-01_amd64.deb reports missing dependencies but the WickrMe-4.3.5/wickr-qt_5.8.1_amd64.deb passes the package installer's test on Mint 18.2.
You get both when you download wickr me from the developer's site.

Looking at ElementaryOS' website I would suggest switching to an Ubuntu or a Mint distro. Something that I believe is essential for a good Linux experience is a top notch support forum which both Ubuntu and Mint have but Elementary lacks. This is a major ding on them as far as being a newbie friendly distro goes.
Also the fact that Ubuntu and Mint are, by a considerable margin, the two most popular distro families you get much greater support in general. The smaller the distro's user base the harder it is to find answers.
dv
User avatar
The first time I installed Mint, it dumped me into an IRC chat/help channel.

Just saying.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
dv posted:
The first time I installed Mint, it dumped me into an IRC chat/help channel.

Just saying.

The Mint irc is a fairly good way to find answers. I had kinda forgotten about that since I so rarely actually have any problems.

I scored at a garage sale yesterday. They had some miscellaneous PC parts in a box and, low and behold if I didn't find 2 sticks of 2GB PC6400 ram in there which I bought for $5. So now I will have 8GB of ram once I feel ambitious enough to install it.
Vulture 420
User avatar
ok I'm starting to understand where the dots need to be connected for me.I need Wickr 4.3.5 but I was using terminal commands from instructions for version 2.6. When I try to substitute the version in the terminal to download, I get 404 Not Found.

When I download it with the browser to my downloads folder, I don't know what to do to get this installed because there is no application to run the download. It's fascinating how stripped down it is.

If I could get a proper terminal command to download 4.3.5 and then install the download, it will probably work.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Vulture posted:
ok I'm starting to understand where the dots need to be connected for me.I need Wickr 4.3.5 but I was using terminal commands from instructions for version 2.6. When I try to substitute the version in the terminal to download, I get 404 Not Found.

When I download it with the browser to my downloads folder, I don't know what to do to get this installed because there is no application to run the download. It's fascinating how stripped down it is.

If I could get a proper terminal command to download 4.3.5 and then install the download, it will probably work.

You don't have an archive manager that will unzip the files or you don't have a package installer to install the deb? I would think any distro would have both, they are pretty basic utilities.
With an Ubuntu derivative you really shouldn't ever need to install via the terminal unless that is just your thing.
Vulture 420
User avatar
Archive manager I have, but package installer I can't find. I could only guess they expect me to only go through the AppCenter to install, and if it's not in there it ain't goin in.

I'll see if maybe I can figure out the download address and file name exactly to get the terminal commands to do it. I was following instructions for version 2.6 so no wonder that doesn't work.

If this works, this OS will be pretty nifty in its sparseness and speed to handle the basics.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Vulture posted:
Archive manager I have, but package installer I can't find. I could only guess they expect me to only go through the AppCenter to install, and if it's not in there it ain't goin in.

I'll see if maybe I can figure out the download address and file name exactly to get the terminal commands to do it. I was following instructions for version 2.6 so no wonder that doesn't work.

If this works, this OS will be pretty nifty in its sparseness and speed to handle the basics.

Did you right click on the .deb package? There should be an "open with" in the context menu that offers the package manager as a choice.
You have tried double clicking on the deb, right?
Vulture 420
User avatar
Yes, that's how I found the Archive Manager. I just tried the gdebi command and I had to download gdebi-core. But no package manager.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Vulture posted:
Yes, that's how I found the Archive Manager. I just tried the gdebi command and I had to download gdebi-core. But no package manager.

Ugh. That is so weird. Installing from a deb is brain-dead simple on Mint and Ubuntu.
It's almost like you were posting from the past, before Linux got easy.
Vulture 420
User avatar
Wow, I finally got this to work, not sure how because I managed to install the packages like you would think once I got the package manager, but the app still wouldn't launch so I shut the thing down.
I read about this Unity Tweak Tool, and installed that from AppCenter, found something called Phone Manager that I figured maybe would be my fallback for texting via the computer, restarted, and everything was different on startup. It took much longer to start up but when it did Wickr launched. I can't find Tweak Tool anywhere but many new apps have proliferated the space and I can't say why things are filling out but they are. This Linux thing is getting pretty cool.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Vulture posted:
Wow, I finally got this to work, not sure how because I managed to install the packages like you would think once I got the package manager, but the app still wouldn't launch so I shut the thing down.
I read about this Unity Tweak Tool, and installed that from AppCenter, found something called Phone Manager that I figured maybe would be my fallback for texting via the computer, restarted, and everything was different on startup. It took much longer to start up but when it did Wickr launched. I can't find Tweak Tool anywhere but many new apps have proliferated the space and I can't say why things are filling out but they are. This Linux thing is getting pretty cool.

I am glad you are enjoying your experience but my take away from your experience is that Elementary OS is not good for n00bs.
Vulture 420
User avatar
Damn right, this thing sucks for noobs. But I'm learning things at least, and I figured it would be strange and foreign so all that panned out. Plus I never use Terminal on Mac and now I'm opening the damn terminal every time I boot up.
dv
User avatar
Terminal is your friend.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
dv posted:
Terminal is your friend.

I use the terminal sometimes but I have never had to use the terminal. I like adding PPAs via the terminal cuz it's fun to watch, more fun than pasting the url into my PPA manager.
But in Mint there is a GUI way to do pretty much everything a desktop user typically has to do.
Vulture 420
User avatar
looks like github will be something I'm reading a lot now for this. I just installed the Brave browser using 3 terminal commands, using it now, pretty sweet.
dv
User avatar
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Terminal is your friend.

I use the terminal sometimes but I have never had to use the terminal. I like adding PPAs via the terminal cuz it's fun to watch, more fun than pasting the url into my PPA manager.
But in Mint there is a GUI way to do pretty much everything a desktop user typically has to do.

Most of my work is through a cli. No reason for a gui on a server.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
dv posted:
Pariah posted:
dv posted:
Terminal is your friend.

I use the terminal sometimes but I have never had to use the terminal. I like adding PPAs via the terminal cuz it's fun to watch, more fun than pasting the url into my PPA manager.
But in Mint there is a GUI way to do pretty much everything a desktop user typically has to do.

Most of my work is through a cli. No reason for a gui on a server.

Well, sure, that's fine for a server.
I think that one of the bars an OS needs to meet to be ready for mainstream, desktop use is that the user should never have to use the terminal.
Vulture 420
User avatar
If I could just type things to make my computer do everything, I'd probably only be here to talk smack to everybody.

I have to add that as a Mac user since the mid '90s, this Linux stuff is bridging the gap for me in a lot of missing knowledge and understanding since I'm just a point and click kind of person. I remember having to look for weird stuff like Stuffit Expander and some kind of Zip tool and running in to all kinds of document incompatibility problems and just dealing with it, and back in the OS 8 and OS 9 days it wasn't Unix based. Now that MacOS and macOS is Unix based, Linux fits right in with the popularity and evolution of Apple software and the upswing of the Linux distributions and general public participation. So, being rooted at my core as a Mac user only, Linux is fantastic at this point in time. My appreciation has grown for both the current macOS builds, as well at the point-and-click-only philosophy of the early Steve Jobs days even though it really really looks painful compared to now.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
I have a riddle going on.
Three evenings ago I pulled my two 1GB ram sticks and replaced them with a pair of 2GB sticks, giving me 8GB of ram.
Now we are at 3 days uptime and by now my typical ram usage would be hovering around 5GB of ram and and a few hundred MB if paging going on when I had 6GB. But now that I have 8GB my ram usage seems to be less. Right now my system is using around 3.5GB of ram under a load that was using 2GB more before.
Is there some DDR magic going on where ram gets more efficient with 4 matched sticks?
I am seeing a significant drop in ram usage for no apparent reason.
I am assuming that your motherboard has a total of 4 RAM slots and that all 4 have 2 GB sticks in them, yes?

Pop out all 4 RAM sticks and closely examine the RAM slots with a bright light to make sure you hadn't accidentally damaged any of the contacts, or that something hadn't fallen inside one or more of the slots to partially block full contact. While especially nowadays such contact damage SHOULD be difficult to do even deliberately, I did have one particular case when I was swapping around RAM sticks in a PC that somehow one of the contacts got bent such that basically the motherboard was a loss because it would not even boot up even without a stick inside that slot with the bent contact.

Use a pencil eraser to gently clean the contacts on the sticks (well, depending on the stick design as some will not allow this method of cleaning) and examine their contacts for any obvious corrosion.

Check the RAM and see how closely they resemble each other. Considering that you had bought them in presumably matching pairs, then make sure that if there are ANY differences between the pairs that matching pairs of RAM get inserted into matching pairs of slots.

Maybe the vendor of your most recent RAM stick purchase accidentally sent you a badly matched pair? Once OWC sent me the wrong kind of stick--it was not even for the same style of slot--which they promptly and at their expense mailed to me my correct order and asked me to send back that incorrect stick (this was WAY back when that motherboard didn't have pairs of slots).
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
DEyncourt posted:
I am assuming that your motherboard has a total of 4 RAM slots and that all 4 have 2 GB sticks in them, yes?

Pop out all 4 RAM sticks and closely examine the RAM slots with a bright light to make sure you hadn't accidentally damaged any of the contacts, or that something hadn't fallen inside one or more of the slots to partially block full contact. While such contact damage SHOULD be difficult to do even deliberately, I did have one particular case when I was swapping around RAM sticks in a PC that somehow one of the contacts got bent such that basically the motherboard was a loss.

Use a pencil eraser to gently clean the contacts on the sticks (well, depending on the stick design as some will not allow this method of cleaning) and examine their contacts for any obvious corrosion.

Check the RAM and see how closely they resemble each other. Considering that you had bought them in presumably matching pairs, then make sure that if there are ANY differences between the pairs that matching pairs of RAM gets inserted into matching pairs of slots.

Maybe the vendor of your most recent RAM stick purchase accidentally sent you a badly matched pair? Once OWC sent me the wrong kind of stick--it was not even for the same style of slot--which they promptly and at their expense mailed to me my correct order and asked me to send back that incorrect stick (this was WAY back when that motherboard didn't have pairs of slots).

No, no, you got it backwards.
The ram is fine. My system sees the full 8GB of ram. What I am saying is that when I had 6GB of ram I was typically consuming 5 or more GBs of ram. Now that I have 8GB my rig is only using around 3.5GB. My software seems to be demanding less ram and I don't know why.
It's not a problem, I am just curious why this is, it seems odd..
Oh, that is weird.

My apologies for not understanding your situation.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
DEyncourt posted:
Oh, that is weird.

My apologies for not understanding your situation.

No worries.
I like getting back to having more ram than I need. At least until the next Chrome or Firefox update. That's what eating all the ram, stick fiddling browsers.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
User avatar
Hey, it's like free ram... or magical more efficient use of ram. Enjoy.
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
User avatar
Pariah posted:
I have a riddle going on.
Three evenings ago I pulled my two 1GB ram sticks and replaced them with a pair of 2GB sticks, giving me 8GB of ram.
Now we are at 3 days uptime and by now my typical ram usage would be hovering around 5GB of ram and and a few hundred MB if paging going on when I had 6GB. But now that I have 8GB my ram usage seems to be less. Right now my system is using around 3.5GB of ram under a load that was using 2GB more before.
Is there some DDR magic going on where ram gets more efficient with 4 matched sticks?
I am seeing a significant drop in ram usage for no apparent reason.

I might theorize that virtual memory doesn't need to allocate as much swap space preemptively if everything is fitting into physical RAM. Or to say it in more obfuscated terminology, less disk buffering?
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
That additional 2GB is probably the last upgrade tis old computer will get but as it is now my PC feels good to go for awhile still. An SSD boot drive and plenty of ram make things work quite nicely.
It is kind of amazing to me that I am quite comfortably using a PC with a CPU that was introduced 9 years ago. Imagine what it would have been like to be running a 9 year old CPU in 2007.
dv
User avatar
Pariah posted:
That additional 2GB is probably the last upgrade tis old computer will get but as it is now my PC feels good to go for awhile still. An SSD boot drive and plenty of ram make things work quite nicely.
It is kind of amazing to me that I am quite comfortably using a PC with a CPU that was introduced 9 years ago. Imagine what it would have been like to be running a 9 year old CPU in 2007.


How long did you keep that G4 around? The PPC 7400 was released in '99.
arkayn Aaarrrggghhhh
User avatar
Pariah posted:
That additional 2GB is probably the last upgrade tis old computer will get but as it is now my PC feels good to go for awhile still. An SSD boot drive and plenty of ram make things work quite nicely.
It is kind of amazing to me that I am quite comfortably using a PC with a CPU that was introduced 9 years ago. Imagine what it would have been like to be running a 9 year old CPU in 2007.


I think I ran it for at least a couple of years as well.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
dv posted:
Pariah posted:
That additional 2GB is probably the last upgrade tis old computer will get but as it is now my PC feels good to go for awhile still. An SSD boot drive and plenty of ram make things work quite nicely.
It is kind of amazing to me that I am quite comfortably using a PC with a CPU that was introduced 9 years ago. Imagine what it would have been like to be running a 9 year old CPU in 2007.


How long did you keep that G4 around? The PPC 7400 was released in '99.

I had my G4/400 for 5 years but two years in upgraded the cpu to a 933 and upgraded the ram and the video card.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Quote:
Punches, rocks and blood soaked ‘Tux’ the Penguin plushie toys were all thrown alike, along with cars lit on fire and key lanyards used as choking devices. One witness said that while unusually violent, this kind of encounter between the respective software project fans was “to be expected”.

“It was pretty intense, kind of like what we usually see in online forums and YouTube comments between these guys. Except usually those clashes don’t give me unexpected flashes of someone’s entrails that will scar me for life,” said Steven Dawkins, who witnessed the entire thing. “I’m not really sure who threw the first punch, so to speak, but I know the GNOME guys were here first and handing out almost Apple-styled pamphlets advocating the GNOME Shell desktop and then I think the KDE guys came along handing out their own fliers and fifty page booklets on ‘how to use and apply basic customizations to the Plasma interface’. Someone shouted out something or other about desktop paradigms and smartphones and it all went downhill from there.”

https://www.sudosatirical.com/articles/ ... -to-blame/
Vulture 420
User avatar
Interesting you talk about RAM that way, the supposedly 32 GB RAM I have is only showing up as 16.4 GB for some reason. I have not inspected the actual connectors, but I'm thinking the whole second RAM is either not recognized, or maybe there is some weird setting that only utilizes half of the 32 GB?
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
Vulture posted:
Interesting you talk about RAM that way, the supposedly 32 GB RAM I have is only showing up as 16.4 GB for some reason. I have not inspected the actual connectors, but I'm thinking the whole second RAM is either not recognized, or maybe there is some weird setting that only utilizes half of the 32 GB?

That is odd.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
User avatar
The mobo dimm slot might be busted. first try reseating the ram to see if it's just loose.


Then process of elimination, take one stick out and test, place the other stick into that same slot test, then test the other side.

The last guy may have shorted the board, thought he fubar'd the whole thing and tossed it to the trash without bothering to really test it.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
User avatar
mmaverick posted:
The mobo dimm slot might be busted. first try reseating the ram to see if it's just loose.


Then process of elimination, take one stick out and test, place the other stick into that same slot test, then test the other side.

The last guy may have shorted the board, thought he fubar'd the whole thing and tossed it to the trash without bothering to really test it.

But it can't be that simple. The amount the system is detecting makes no sense. 16.4 GB is more than two 8GB sticks would read. My 8GB, 4x2GB, reads out to an effective 7.7GB.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
User avatar
Without any specific knowledge on that OS, I'd take that as just the way it counts the one stick's memory. Could his kernal be angry and refusing to see more than 8.2 gig per stick?
dv
User avatar
Vulture posted:
Interesting you talk about RAM that way, the supposedly 32 GB RAM I have is only showing up as 16.4 GB for some reason. I have not inspected the actual connectors, but I'm thinking the whole second RAM is either not recognized, or maybe there is some weird setting that only utilizes half of the 32 GB?

Screenshot please.
Vulture 420
User avatar
Sorry guys, I'm an idiot. I pulled both sticks and started to try them one by one, then it dawned on me that I was reading the sticker labels wrong. Both sticks say 16GB (2X8), which means each one is 8, not 16. So I have 16, not 32.

Now I know that everything still seems to be in working order with this computer.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
User avatar
:p

16 is the sweet spot anyways. More than you'll need unless you're doing a lot of heavy lifting.

and when they were 16's I should have told you to sell them and get 2 8's.


https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductLi ... 0600551103

They go for a tonne.
Subsequent topic  /  Preceding topic
Post Reply

Pariah's Perpetual Linux Thread.

Page: 1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26