Pariah's Perpetual Linux Thread.

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Pariah Know Your Enemy
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I have been looking around at new distros and I am seeing Cinnamon offered on several. Not bad for a DE that really only got stable about 2 months ago.
blurt mundus vult decipi
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With apt-get, all distros are the same. They may start out with different features, but you can pick the packages that suit you.

Yeah, I'm simplifying. Still, the lines between distros get very blurry once you open Synaptic.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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blurt wrote:
With apt-get, all distros are the same. They may start out with different features, but you can pick the packages that suit you.

Yeah, I'm simplifying. Still, the lines between distros get very blurry once you open Synaptic.

Ya, but I can tell ya that certain DE's do not play well together and one of the easiest ways to hose a Linux install is to try to have too many DEs installed at once.
But, ya, most distros are just variations on Debian, Redhat, Slackware or Gentoo.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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I renamed the thread and I am just going to use this as a place for my random Linux thoughts and discoveries.

My newest cool app find is a file manager called Thunar. It is light weight and launches in the blink of an eye which is great for finding a file "right now". It lacks features compared to Nautilus but it has one killer feature that makes it a must have.
It has a really nice, easy to use batch rename function built in. "Easy to use" being the operative point here. Linux has tons of batching utilities but all that I have used required some degree of understanding scripting or some other type of programing, really neck beardy stuff.
In Thunar you open a folder full of files, make an arbitrary selection and hit F2 and you will be presented with a readily understandable batch renaming dialogue, complete with preview pane.
Super fast, super easy. Highly recommended.
Pariah wrote:
I renamed the thread and I am just going to use this as a place for my random Linux thoughts and discoveries.

Neat.
Heh, at the risk of my man card, I recently picked up a 4+ year old Ubuntu book to study. (Does it count as reading the manual when its for an old version of a similar product rather than the actual product and you actually did it after the fact?)
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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ScifiterX wrote:
Heh, at the risk of my man card, I recently picked up a 4+ year old Ubuntu book to study. (Does it count as reading the manual when its for an old version of a similar product rather than the actual product and you actually did it after the fact?)

Now you can find out all the stuff you could have done. ;)
And may still. I figured out the basics, now I go for the guts, which will also assist me with Unix Distros like OS X.
user Stupid cockwomble
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I just found a Linux book in my collection that's still in the shrink-wrap.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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I only bother with learning how to fix the stuff I break.
That's likely because you are happy as a pressman and for you, computers are for completing your work and providing you entertainment. That is just the foundation for me. I also find pleasure in trying understand things and from working so other can use them for those purposes.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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ScifiterX wrote:
That's likely because you are happy as a pressman and for you, computers are for completing your work and providing you entertainment. That is just the foundation for me. I also find pleasure in trying understand things and from working so other can use them for those purposes.

It's more that I know I don't have the aptitude for stuff like you are talking about. With computers I have always been in a middle place. I know more than probably 90% of users but no where near what real system and IT guys are. So I am knowledgeable enough that a new desktop oriented Linux distro is not particularly challenging but the only terminal operations I ever do are copypasta from helpful websites.
Really my biggest tech skills are that I am interested in the first place and I am willing to ask questions and know where to ask and get good answers.
I meant it less as aptitude but more as enthusiasm. Still, your point is probably still similar when looked at from those terms.

Speaking for myself, I'm sure professional IT people still have higher aptitude and similar enthusiasm (or at least start with similar enthusiasm) as I do. Because of my enthusiasm, I am working on increasing my aptitude.
So, in an effort to stir up some feces-hurling, let's see what Miguel de Icaza, the developer of Gnome and Mono has to say about why Linux has never gained traction on the desktop. Nothing too deep or technical but it certainly fits with the Linux experiences of those here who have tired it.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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rjprice wrote:
So, in an effort to stir up some feces-hurling, let's see what Miguel de Icaza, the developer of Gnome and Mono has to say about why Linux has never gained traction on the desktop. Nothing too deep or technical but it certainly fits with the Linux experiences of those here who have tired it.


He nailed it. We use Linux on our systems at work, but we had to lock in a distribution that is now 6 years old. This works because we are building embedded systems, but the reality is that trying to migrate at this point would wreck the software from stem to stern.

About the only way Linux will ever take off on the desktop is in the form of appliances, like the Chromebook. Otherwise, it will forever remain the province of geeks. That's really kind of sad, because it would nice to have a true competitor to Windows and MacOS, but I've long since quit looking for the "Year of the Linux Desktop" I have a Linux machine, and like it, but even that experience was enough to sour me a bit.

I had to find a deprecated version to run on my Pentium III laptop because the chipset was no longer supported, while I accidentally booted - to the desktop - Windows 8 on the same machine. ;)
Yeah. it is funny. Kind of like if in ~1910-20 Henry Ford had said, "Y'know what? I'm too old for this nonsense. I just want a car that works", and went and bought a Daimler or Rolls.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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radarman wrote:
rjprice wrote:
So, in an effort to stir up some feces-hurling, let's see what Miguel de Icaza, the developer of Gnome and Mono has to say about why Linux has never gained traction on the desktop. Nothing too deep or technical but it certainly fits with the Linux experiences of those here who have tired it.


He nailed it. We use Linux on our systems at work, but we had to lock in a distribution that is now 6 years old. This works because we are building embedded systems, but the reality is that trying to migrate at this point would wreck the software from stem to stern.

About the only way Linux will ever take off on the desktop is in the form of appliances, like the Chromebook. Otherwise, it will forever remain the province of geeks. That's really kind of sad, because it would nice to have a true competitor to Windows and MacOS, but I've long since quit looking for the "Year of the Linux Desktop" I have a Linux machine, and like it, but even that experience was enough to sour me a bit.

I had to find a deprecated version to run on my Pentium III laptop because the chipset was no longer supported, while I accidentally booted - to the desktop - Windows 8 on the same machine. ;)

I have never been a YOLOTDT kinda guy. Honestly I hope Linux keeps plugging along as it has been, slow steady long term growth. Linux already does everything I need to do and most of the things I want it to.
As for the article...
I have only been using Linux 8 months so my experience is limited but I have found Linux to be easy to use. I'm not any sort of ubergeek, not by a stick fiddling long shot. My background is Macs and I bet in 8 years on OSX I opened the terminal under 5 times, never doing anything but pasting in code to make something trivial happen. I know nothing about command line sytax, nothing, zero.
I didnt using a Mac and I still don't after 8mos on Linux. If you pick a home user oriented distro like Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin, etc, installing and using Linux is no more difficult than any other OS.
I think the author really shot himself in the foot complaining about Linux breaking things with kernel updates and such but then praises OSX. Come on, seriously? OSX is the poster child for the "fiddlesticks backwards compatibility" crowd. Every single point release of OSX broke tons of human waste. If you want to talk about stability talk about Windows, not OSX.

In a production environment "locking in" the OS for many years is perfectly normal. 6 years really ain't that long at all. Look at all the businesses still using XP. We have a 8 year old XP box running our rip. It works perfectly, why upgrade? Heck, the Mac in prepress is a PPC MacPro, whats that? Seven years old at least?
We only just last month got rid of our Sun rip and that damned thing was 17 years old.
There are distros that have very long support periods. That is what they are for.
blurt mundus vult decipi
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For those of you who just can't get enough...

:: crosses fingers, hoping this will put Nini in a killing mood ::
Hey now, this is Par's thread, no need to bring Reddit into things.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Nini wrote:
Hey now, this is Par's thread, no need to bring Reddit into things.

This so very much.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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Pariah wrote:
I think the author really shot himself in the foot complaining about Linux breaking things with kernel updates and such but then praises OSX. Come on, seriously? OSX is the poster child for the "fiddlesticks backwards compatibility" crowd. Every single point release of OSX broke tons of human waste. If you want to talk about stability talk about Windows, not OSX.


Yes, which is why Microsoft will have a virtual lock on enterprise customers for the foreseeable future. Hell, they survived Vista, and it was probably second only to ME as the biggest steaming turd to be excreted from Redmond. I suspect Windows 8 may top it, but we will have to wait and see.

However, no matter what the stench may be, I guarantee you that applications written for Windows 98 will run on it. (at least for the 32-bit version) This has always been Microsoft's claim to fame - backwards compatibility at all costs.

The only Linux flavor I have seen consistently supported by larger software vendors is Red Hat - and it's because they lock down the OS for a very long time. Want ModelSim? Better be running Red Hat EL or the equivalent Centos. Same for Altera Quartus or Xilinx ISE. You _might_ be able to run it on other flavors, but it's strictly a YMMV type of thing.

Linux is great for a lot of things, but until it is as easy to install and use as Windows or MacOS, and developers can be reasonably confident that their software will run on the platform for years, it's going to remain something that is embedded in smartphones, televisions, servers, etc. Who knows, perhaps that's enough?
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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radarman wrote:
Pariah wrote:
I think the author really shot himself in the foot complaining about Linux breaking things with kernel updates and such but then praises OSX. Come on, seriously? OSX is the poster child for the "fiddlesticks backwards compatibility" crowd. Every single point release of OSX broke tons of human waste. If you want to talk about stability talk about Windows, not OSX.


Yes, which is why Microsoft will have a virtual lock on enterprise customers for the foreseeable future. Hell, they survived Vista, and it was probably second only to ME as the biggest steaming turd to be excreted from Redmond. I suspect Windows 8 may top it, but we will have to wait and see.

However, no matter what the stench may be, I guarantee you that applications written for Windows 98 will run on it. (at least for the 32-bit version) This has always been Microsoft's claim to fame - backwards compatibility at all costs.

The only Linux flavor I have seen consistently supported by larger software vendors is Red Hat - and it's because they lock down the OS for a very long time. Want ModelSim? Better be running Red Hat EL or the equivalent Centos. Same for Altera Quartus or Xilinx ISE. You _might_ be able to run it on other flavors, but it's strictly a YMMV type of thing.

Linux is great for a lot of things, but until it is as easy to install and use as Windows or MacOS, and developers can be reasonably confident that their software will run on the platform for years, it's going to remain something that is embedded in smartphones, televisions, servers, etc. Who knows, perhaps that's enough?

All Linux needs is enough users and developers to have a thriving software ecosystem. It already has that.
I think you should include OSX in with Linux as a failure on the desktop because OSX really is. At least if you think the game is competing with Microsoft directly.
But that is not the game.
There is no game. Microsoft won the desktop 20 years ago and they ain't going to be dethroned by anyone. OSX is a small niche player who has a strong, healthy developers community and enthusiastic users. Linux is a smaller niche player with a strong, healthy developers community and enthusiastic users.
"Linux" is not an OS like Windows or OSX. Linux is a way of doing things that provides the foundation for hundreds of niche OS's. Linux cannot become monolithic because no one is in control of it.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Cinnamon is on the brink of a big update. They added features and made it smaller at the same time.
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?p=195

Also, it's official. Nautilus is out, Nemo is in. Nemo looks good. I like the open as root being built into the manager. That's convenient for a GUI jockey like me.
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?p=198
So, in the declutter before listing our condo for sale, I came across a laptop box. Inside I found an old Toshiba lappy. Celeron-M. Probably 512mb of RAM. I decided that I would enrage Nini by hanging onto it and instanlling a lightweight distro on it.

So, because I packed all of my blank media, I had to settle for a CD that we had around. That limited me to lubuntu instead of xbuntu (for now, anyways) since the xbuntu image was too big for the CD, but the lubuntu one fit.

Any suggestions on what I can use it for? (other than to goad nini! ;) )

I was thinking about using it to serve media for my 360. Anyone done this? Is it possible?
Posting from Chromium!

This thing sure isnt anywhere as snappy as my SandyBridge i7 MBP :D
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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You might want to try Puppy Linux. It is extremely light weight.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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In other news ZDNet names Mint/Cinnamon Linux of the year, for what ever that is worth.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/2 ... t-13/11110
I gotta think all the press Mint is getting has got to gall the crap out of the Canonical guys after all the money they spent to make Ubuntu the most well known distro..
dv
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Pariah wrote:

I gotta think all the press Mint is getting has got to gall the crap out of the Canonical guys after all the money they spent to make Ubuntu the most well known distro..

Wasn't it inevitable? I mean, just the act of creating a distro ubiquitous to the point of being almost "standard" probably irritated enough Linux devs to get ten new distros started.
Hell the fact Linux is open source should be a clue in that respect.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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dv wrote:
Pariah wrote:

I gotta think all the press Mint is getting has got to gall the crap out of the Canonical guys after all the money they spent to make Ubuntu the most well known distro..

Wasn't it inevitable? I mean, just the act of creating a distro ubiquitous to the point of being almost "standard" probably irritated enough Linux devs to get ten new distros started.

I think it is very cool that a small team like Mint can upstage a well funded outfit like Canonical. A fun fact about Cinnamon is that one of the regular contributors is a 13 year old boy. His code is central to plans aimed at providing Cinnamon with a true 2D version that will run on older hardware without 3D acceleration.
dv
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Really? Neat-O.

Also, I have clearly wasted my life.

Oh well, off to waste some more.
Mr. T Dude extraordinaire
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I'm really excited about all the progress LM + Cinnamon has made. I haven't thoroughly put it through its paces, but I've recommended to friends based mostly on comments in this thread. Thanks "this thread!"
Warin wrote:
So, in the declutter before listing our condo for sale, I came across a laptop box. Inside I found an old Toshiba lappy. Celeron-M. Probably 512mb of RAM. I decided that I would enrage Nini by hanging onto it and instanlling a lightweight distro on it.

So, because I packed all of my blank media, I had to settle for a CD that we had around. That limited me to lubuntu instead of xbuntu (for now, anyways) since the xbuntu image was too big for the CD, but the lubuntu one fit.

Any suggestions on what I can use it for? (other than to goad nini! ;) )

I was thinking about using it to serve media for my 360. Anyone done this? Is it possible?


Could give plex a look, works across Linux and Mac OS X and iOS i would assume windows as well but never checked.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Mr. T wrote:
I'm really excited about all the progress LM + Cinnamon has made. I haven't thoroughly put it through its paces, but I've recommended to friends based mostly on comments in this thread. Thanks "this thread!"

Cinnamon is in rapid development and from what I have read of the roadmap things are going to be better and better for the next couple of point releases. Cinnamon 1.4 was mostly a stability update, 1.6 will be adding in more features and will likely ship with Mint14. I am looking forward to the bump map transparency idea that is planned for 1.8. Screen shots I have seen look nifty.
I haven't tried any of the betas or nightlies cuz I think a beta window manager is not something I want to deal with, but I hear they are good.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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I just had occasion to use the Calculator that comes with Mint.
It is super nice. It's not just a calculator put has some very handy equation editing built in.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
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I'll be putting Ubuntu onto a first rev. intel iMac with a coreduo. at least I hope to, the computer isn't working right now and I really hope it's just a dead hdd
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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mmaverick wrote:
I'll be putting Ubuntu onto a first rev. intel iMac with a coreduo. at least I hope to, the computer isn't working right now and I really hope it's just a dead hdd

Mint is better unless you actually like Unity.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
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well first I have to get a new drive and put it in. have you seen what involved with putting a new drive in this stupid thing?
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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mmaverick wrote:
well first I have to get a new drive and put it in. have you seen what involved with putting a new drive in this stupid thing?

AIO's suck.
ukimalefu want, but shouldn't, may anyway
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mmaverick wrote:
well first I have to get a new drive and put it in. have you seen what involved with putting a new drive in this stupid thing?


I don't know, but I've used ifixit to get instructions to open two different Macs that are considered difficult to open.
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Pariah's Perpetual Linux Thread.

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