Outbreak of Coronavirus

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TOS
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testing, travel and in this case prison (major outbreaks behind bars)
Malkin kick 'em in the face; taste the body
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dv posted:
Is it just me or are the rich and famous overrepresented in the illness tallies?

Or is it just that they get to jump the line for tests?


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Yet another sign of our oligarchy
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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I have no doubt there is a contingent of scum that feel these are acceptable losses. :goth:
jkahless Custom Title
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I thought we finished talking about the Chinese Government.
TOS posted:
hospitals in China are turning away patients so they don’t have to report new cases, while notices are still being posted at residential areas announcing quarantined due to new cases

none of this is a secret in china itself; everybody there knows that in their country, data means what the party wants it to mean

maybe just this once you could not be an argumentative dick and just admit you were wrong, or maybe just shut up

An as example, when the Tianjin explosion happened I was considering a job in Beijing. The head of the school, an American, lived and had his family in Tianjin, but spent Monday-Friday in Beijing, returning on the weekend. His wife worked for the government.

The number of dead they reported in the explosion was roughly equal the the actual number of FIRST RESPONDERS killed. That is how far off the government numbers were.
jkahless Custom Title
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But who would make up statistics?!
jkahless Custom Title
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I bet there's a room full of chinese party members, calculating if it would be more advantageous strategically to China to let the virus just burn through.
TOS
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jkahless posted:
I bet there's a room full of chinese party members, calculating if it would be more advantageous strategically to China to let the virus just burn through.


it might not have even that calculated ... maybe moore like VIRUS BAD NEWS YOU SHUT UP NOW
TOS
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oh and canada has withdrawn from the olympics

i assume they'll end up being cancelled
jkahless Custom Title
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TOS posted:
jkahless posted:
I bet there's a room full of chinese party members, calculating if it would be more advantageous strategically to China to let the virus just burn through.


it might not have even that calculated ... maybe moore like VIRUS BAD NEWS YOU SHUT UP NOW


That seems to be the thrust of the response. The human life counters won't make the decisions. They'll just present options to be ignored at will by those in charge.
One of the first confirmed cases here in Kamloops is my family doctor. No wonder my appointment Wednesday is being done by phone.
TOS
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well spain has reached the stage of trading lives

i guess we’ll all get there soon

https://mobile.twitter.com/WellingMicha ... 6677284870
TOS
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Some of these states in total lockdown for no reason at all, since their is no Nationwide response from the administration. For example PA is total lockdown hospital and emergency personal only whilst at the same time CA had thousands of people out on the beach this weekend...so when PA gets off lockdown it will just get reinfected from the states that weren't & are still spreading it.
Alexander Supertramp this was uncalled for.
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that's certainly not no reason at all, it's slowing the outbreak.
DukeofNuke FREE RADICAL
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States are going it alone. No leadership from DC.
TOS
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Aaron_R posted:
Some of these states in total lockdown for no reason at all, since their is no Nationwide response from the administration. For example PA is total lockdown hospital and emergency personal only whilst at the same time CA had thousands of people out on the beach this weekend...so when PA gets off lockdown it will just get reinfected from the states that weren't & are still spreading it.


the time to lock down is precisely before the virus becomes widespread
Yori Program
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52012432

Quote:
Strict new curbs on life in the UK to tackle the spread of coronavirus have been announced by the prime minister.

From this evening people must stay at home except for shopping for basic necessities, daily exercise, any medical need and travelling to and from essential work.

Shops selling non-essential goods are being told to shut and gatherings in public of more than two people who do not live together are to be prohibited.

DukeofNuke posted:
States are going it alone. No leadership from DC.

which is really stupid. You could be in lockdown but your neighboring state could still be acting like nothing is happening rendering your lockdown a moot point. Than some states say they are in a lockdown but their definition of it is completely different from somewhere else doing it, national leadership needs to man the fiddlesticks up and declare federal level policies instead of this piece meal bs.
juice Inadvertently correct
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“States rights”
I have to shut down my business for the next 14 days. My staff are collecting their employment insurance. I will take the opportunity to do equipment maintenance.

My customers have been really great about the situation, as have my staff. I hope we come out of this with even just a small part of our brains re-wired with the knowledge that money and business aren't the only or even the best measure of an 'economy'.
DEyncourt posted:
[snip]
a demonstration that he simply did not read any of my response.

Let's look at why I reacted this way.

Here was our exchange:
TOS posted:
DEyncourt posted:
I just watched NOVA: Mysteries of Sleep. Yeah, it was broadcast a while back and it took me a few weeks to catch up.

Among many interesting things, it included a short segment about how in the study of sleep scientists have found that apparently upon waking the body basically has flushed out any excess of adinosine but then it begins to produce it. Adinosine acts as a sleep inducer upon specific receptors on nerve cells, so the more adinosine in your body, the more sleepy you feel. Caffeine will temporarily bind to these receptors which is why it can be effective for a while to help keep you awake.

What does the above have to with what I wrote about previously in this string? Nuthin', which was my reaction to TOS' post above.

That Mainland China is an authoritarian hell made even more effective in its control over its citizens by modern tech is a frightening prospect even from afar, but what I wrote about were SCIENCE reports. For these the Chinese authoritarians are in a bind: they want to make China look good, but there are lots of topics which--if fully and properly studied--will make China look bad. The authoritarians have at their fingertips tons of personal data covering the entirety of the population in China, but they also would never allow sociologists access to such data for general publication because such analyses will almost certainly reveal many bad aspects in the life of the average citizen in China.

So a study upon urban crowding? 禁止的 (forbidden). Paleontology findings? All celebrated with welcoming arms.

I'm sure that had Dr. He been successful in his experiments then he might have found equally welcoming arms from the Chinese authorities despite the immediate worldwide condemnation from outside of China. I suspect that the severity of his punishment for science fraud had a significant additional factor of embarrassing China in the scientific world.


hospitals in China are turning away patients so they don’t have to report new cases, while notices are still being posted at residential areas announcing quarantined due to new cases

none of this is a secret in china itself; everybody there knows that in their country, data means what the party wants it to mean

maybe just this once you could not be an argumentative dick and just admit you were wrong, or maybe just shut up

Answer me this: how was TOS' response actually REPLYING to my post? Yes, We both are talking about how China is an authoritarian hell--see! We agree!--but I used my post to get BACK to my original argument of how even science in China must tread lightly with formal science reports.

On the other hand, TOS insults me along with writing with more about his personal correspondence with people living in that bureaucratic nightmare of China. It is as if he never read my post above, at least not with any real understanding.

TOS also insulted me by posting:
Quote:
[snip]
i treasure your incredible naive view that it's hard to falsify statistics, i really do, but it has no relevance at all in a place like china

Seriously, ask any statistician about faking data. They will tell you that maybe in small batches it can be done (another reason why to take any small study proclaiming any large general "truth" such as "Science Shows that Wine Is Actually GOOD/BAD for You!"--that headline is probably the fault of a headline writer whose job it is to provide clickbait--with a grain of salt that is inversely related to size of the study...but forgive me: a pile up of several hobbyhorses), but it would be impossible to do with very large studies. Such cheating is a human endeavor and thus subject to human failings no matter the effort to avoid detection.

For example: while Mendel is generally considered the father of genetic research, in some statistician circles he is called a fraud (perhaps too strong of a term but you be the judge). The problem with Mendel's studies of peas was that his statistics were NEAR-PERFECT. In our current understanding of genes and science in general we can see that given the many thousands of cases that Mendel wrote about that it would have been next-to-impossible to have such a clean report. He almost certainly had to have come across many hundreds of "errors" which did not fit into his models, but probably he assumed that HE must have made those errors somewhere and thus erased those lines of data while chiding himself.

Now Mendel can be forgiven. After all, his findings were made at a time DESPITE science still being at a stage of still organizing itself. If anything Mendel should be congratulated for gleaning truth out of probably "bad" statistics even if he had omitted all his bad cases (or perhaps for being compulsive enough to insist on his truth which happened to be correct at least in general). Being an Augustinian friar, he likely believed that all such errors were his alone and could not be blamed upon God.

BUT nowadays had Mendel submitted his report to a science journal, then it almost certainly would have been rejected because no one could have such perfect numbers especially in a study concerning genes. Just random mutations due to natural radiation alone should have created dozens of problem cases among every thousand which did not fit into his hypothesis, but that is modern science understanding intervening.

The Mainland Chinese authorities watching over science in their county almost undoubtedly have this modern science understanding, thus my post above of how they likely are very careful to have at least Chinese public science avoid those topics which could reveal bad aspects of life in China (though my guess is there are many very tightly held studies requiring high levels of security clearance). Of course this a problem of OMISSION, so it can be impossible to prove such except by a thorough check for dearths of any publications on sensitive topics like urban crowding.

So are the Chinese authorities lying? Well, sure, and not just about COVID-19. In fact I have never disagreed with TOS on this but it is HIS insistence that I am being "an argumentative dick" for writing about science papers.

My prediction of TOS' response: "tl;dr".
jkahless Custom Title
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Look up methods of Soviet suppression. Data collection can be faked, data analysis ginned up, but mostly things were just not counted or not published.
ukimalefu last throes
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jkahless posted:
Look up methods of Soviet suppression. Data collection can be faked, data analysis ginned up, but mostly things were just not counted or not published.


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TOS
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DEyncourt posted:
In fact I have never disagreed with TOS on this but it is HIS insistence that I am being "an argumentative dick" for writing about science papers.

My prediction of TOS' response: "tl;dr".


golly you sure proved me wrong
TOS posted:
DEyncourt posted:
In fact I have never disagreed with TOS on this but it is HIS insistence that I am being "an argumentative dick" for writing about science papers.

My prediction of TOS' response: "tl;dr".


golly you sure proved me wrong

:shrug: Same thing.
"Fearing coronavirus, Arizona man dies after taking a form of chloroquine used to treat aquariums"

His wife is also in critical care after doing the same. She claimed they took the drug after Trump touted it in news conferences over several days.

One online fish aquarium retailer reported it 'was sold out of "the wonder drug" Tuesday' (I am uncertain if the CNN reporter meant today or last week).
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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DEyncourt posted:
"Fearing coronavirus, Arizona man dies after taking a form of chloroquine used to treat aquariums"

His wife is also in critical care after doing the same. She claimed they took the drug after Trump touted it in news conferences over several days.

One online fish aquarium retailer reported it 'was sold out of "the wonder drug" Tuesday' (I am uncertain if the CNN reporter meant today or last week).


Is it too early to start a "Thanks Trump!" meme? :goth:
TOS
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i took that human waste for malaria once, it's no frigging joke
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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TOS posted:
i took that human waste for malaria once, it's no frigging joke

You took chloroquine, not chloroquine phosphate. Big diff.
justine Elitist Beer Lover
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Of the more than 2100 positive cases here in Cal, more than half of them are between the ages of 18-49. These younger people here need to start taking this human waste serious!
Enough of them won't to cause serious problems. Estimates for deaths in the USA from this pandemic vary between 200K (average of consulted specialists) to 1.2M (single most pessimistic estimate). Also given Trump's willingness to consider lifting the quarantine, I'm afraid we might see something closer to the high side of these guesstimates.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/in ... et-either/
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
i took that human waste for malaria once, it's no frigging joke

You took chloroquine, not chloroquine phosphate. Big diff.

And a drug with a dosage that was prescribed for humans as opposed to a dosage to treat water in an aquarium.

Since this couple is clearly science illiterate, my bet is that they looked at the dosage on the bottle they FOUND--it had been left by a previous resident--and thought: "We should double that just to make sure 'cause more is always better, right?"
DEyncourt posted back on Jan. 31:
Video tweet: China is using drones to scold people for not wearing masks.

Police in Brazil use helicopter to force people off of beach.
ukimalefu last throes
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DEyncourt posted:
DEyncourt posted back on Jan. 31:
Video tweet: China is using drones to scold people for not wearing masks.

Police in Brazil use helicopter to force people off of beach.


Brazil's president says it's all the media's fault, and he's to fit to get sick

https://gizmodo.com/brazils-bolsonaro-b ... 1842480778

Did Trump get hold of Palpatine's clone technology?
C. Ives Lacks Critical stick fiddling Thinking
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DEyncourt posted:
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
i took that human waste for malaria once, it's no frigging joke

You took chloroquine, not chloroquine phosphate. Big diff.

And a drug with a dosage that was prescribed for humans as opposed to a dosage to treat water in an aquarium.

Since this couple is clearly science illiterate, my bet is that they looked at the dosage on the bottle they FOUND--it had been left by a previous resident--and thought: "We should double that just to make sure 'cause more is always better, right?"


I can't even laugh at them. When people are scared they do stupid human waste.
ukimalefu last throes
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DEyncourt posted:
DEyncourt posted back on Jan. 31:
Video tweet: China is using drones to scold people for not wearing masks.

Police in Brazil use helicopter to force people off of beach.

London police tell people out in park "It's not a holiday".
Man in Taiwan got police knocking on his door because his phone's battery had run out.

Taiwan is on lockdown due to COVID-19 plus this man had recently returned to Taiwan from Europe and was required to undergo a 14-day home quarantine. Because of the latter, the Ministry of Health and Welfare told him that his phone would be tracked, calling him twice a day to make sure he hadn't left his phone somewhere and to ask about his health. The police checked on him because they needed to be certain that the man hadn't violated quarantine.
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Outbreak of Coronavirus

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