notre dame might be "too fragile" to save

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TOS
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That's terrible. I was just in Paris this past summer and saw the outside of Notre Dame. Terrible. What I find amazing is all the old structures still mostly intact in Europe after all the wars and things. Everything is so old! But thats why they let the Germans take Paris I was told, to protect it. Strange, but it worked. Anyway, I love France. I travelled the Provence up north to Paris. Unbelievable trip.
Vulture 420
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If only God could intervene to save it!
TOS
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they already got the billionaires, what more can god do?
Vulture 420
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Apparently nothing :lol:
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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I'll write it off with all the priceless and unique artifacts destroyed by Christian and Muslim holy wars. Buddhists just shrug it off and remind themselves that nothing lasts forever, and that all acts of creation come with a corresponding act of destruction.

I'm sure this has been completely CGI'd for future holodecks anyway.
juice Inadvertently correct
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Thoughts and prayers
ukimalefu dysfunctional
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Metacell posted:

I'm sure this has been completely CGI'd for future holodecks anyway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtc-oUB9j3Y
dv
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TOS
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Metacell posted:
I'll write it off with all the priceless and unique artifacts destroyed by Christian and Muslim holy wars. Buddhists just shrug it off and remind themselves that nothing lasts forever, and that all acts of creation come with a corresponding act of destruction.

I'm sure this has been completely CGI'd for future holodecks anyway.


yeah, there are still countless buddhist temples in asia that are centuries old and protected fiercely from harm
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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TOS posted:
Metacell posted:
I'll write it off with all the priceless and unique artifacts destroyed by Christian and Muslim holy wars. Buddhists just shrug it off and remind themselves that nothing lasts forever, and that all acts of creation come with a corresponding act of destruction.

I'm sure this has been completely CGI'd for future holodecks anyway.


yeah, there are still countless buddhist temples in asia that are centuries old and protected fiercely from harm

But there are countless more that have been destroyed, thousands of years old. Yeah the ones currently available are protected...fiercely? I doubt it. Maybe proactively and with common sense measures...but if they burn down, there will be no billion dollar movement to remake it. Better to make something new.
TOS
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Metacell posted:
TOS posted:
Metacell posted:
I'll write it off with all the priceless and unique artifacts destroyed by Christian and Muslim holy wars. Buddhists just shrug it off and remind themselves that nothing lasts forever, and that all acts of creation come with a corresponding act of destruction.

I'm sure this has been completely CGI'd for future holodecks anyway.


yeah, there are still countless buddhist temples in asia that are centuries old and protected fiercely from harm

But there are countless more that have been destroyed, thousands of years old. Yeah the ones currently available are protected...fiercely? I doubt it. Maybe proactively and with common sense measures...but if they burn down, there will be no billion dollar movement to remake it. Better to make something new.


still building giant buddha statues

look i'm not trying to crap on buddhists, just pointing out they're still human beings subject to the same foibles as followers of other faiths
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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I didn't say they shouldn't build any more churches!

Countless unique priceless works of art have been lost forever...doesn't mean we should stop making art. Tibetan monks spends weeks, sometimes years creating the most beautiful and intricate sand mandalas, which they then ritually destroy "to symbolize the Buddhist doctrinal belief in the transitory nature of material life. "

All I'm saying, is if it can't be saved, time to let it go.
TOS
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Metacell posted:
I didn't say they shouldn't build any more churches!

Countless unique priceless works of art have been lost forever...doesn't mean we should stop making art. Tibetan monks spends weeks, sometimes years creating the most beautiful and intricate sand mandalas, which they then ritually destroy "to symbolize the Buddhist doctrinal belief in the transitory nature of material life. "

All I'm saying, is if it can't be saved, time to let it go.


fair enough

but it's also okay to be sad about it ... i happened to visit notre dame during easter week and was overwhelmed by the beauty and majesty of the palce
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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Oh hey, if you want to be sad, be sad. We should all be sad, sometimes. I'm not saying its not a great loss. It's a beautiful loss. If its destruction arouses a greater interest in human history, it might be worth it.

Here's my deal: Stan Lee died...accomplishing his dreams. Jack Kirby died, Joe Ditko died. Their dreams have been shared with billions of people. It's not sad that they died. Kurt Cobain died at the age of 28. It's sad to me that he died, because he had a lot more dreams than what we got.
Séamas Honorary Consul General
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At the very least I would hope they could save the stained glass windows which were--other than the architecture itself- the best pieces in the cathedral and in many respects the greatest example of medieval windows in history.
ukimalefu dysfunctional
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Séamas posted:
At the very least I would hope they could save the stained glass windows which were--other than the architecture itself- the best pieces in the cathedral and in many respects the greatest example of medieval windows in history.


Yeah, they'll save as much of that as they can, and in the future you'll see them in a museum.
dv
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And in the end, the deliberate and careful deconstruction that saves as many artifacts as possible will end up costing more and being more difficult than repairs would have been. :goth:
Wow, I can't believe the negativity here. Worse than usual in this thread. I mean wtf... I'm agnostic myself. It's a beautiful place and would be a terrible loss.
macnuke Afar
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dv posted:
And in the end, the deliberate and careful deconstruction that saves as many artifacts as possible will end up costing more and being more difficult than repairs would have been. :goth:


it's called an "economy boost"

tear down, cataloging, storage, while the new Notre Dame museum is built to display what used to be.

the tourists will flock I tell ya.
macnuke Afar
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wellfleation posted:
Wow, I can't believe the negativity here. Worse than usual in this thread. I mean wtf... I'm agnostic myself. It's a beautiful place and would be a terrible loss.


the view from the Arts side... vs. the view from the book keeping side.

oh it was beautiful.. had the pleasure of touring twice and once with an actual service.
sad it's gone.. but i wouldn't want my tax dollars to restore it.
juice Inadvertently correct
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As a building I recognize and appreciate it for the cultural significance.

I wonder what Jesus would say about the funds that were used to build and maintain it rather used for helping the poor and the sick.
TOS
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juice posted:
As a building I recognize and appreciate it for the cultural significance.

I wonder what Jesus would say about the funds that were used to build and maintain it rather used for helping the poor and the sick.


you're concerned about funds spent almost a thousand years ago?

what about the roman colosseum? upset about that budgetary appropriation too?
juice Inadvertently correct
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The Romans didn't base their belief system around "blessed are the poor..."
TOS
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if you want to be mad at religion, that's cool, go ahead, but don't make silly facile arguments to justify it

we're talking about the middle ages, for heaven's sake
juice posted:
The Romans didn't base their belief system around "blessed are the poor..."

Neither do a lot of Christians.
juice Inadvertently correct
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DEyncourt posted:
juice posted:
The Romans didn't base their belief system around "blessed are the poor..."

Neither do a lot of Christians.

Precisely.
dv
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TOS posted:
juice posted:
As a building I recognize and appreciate it for the cultural significance.

I wonder what Jesus would say about the funds that were used to build and maintain it rather used for helping the poor and the sick.


you're concerned about funds spent almost a thousand years ago?

what about the roman colosseum? upset about that budgetary appropriation too?


The money didn't disappear into the ether. It fed and clothed the laborers and their families, etc.
jkahless Custom Title
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wellfleation posted:
Wow, I can't believe the negativity here. Worse than usual in this thread. I mean wtf... I'm agnostic myself. It's a beautiful place and would be a terrible loss.


Yup. And no one would be blinking if it was a archeological find.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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jkahless posted:
wellfleation posted:
Wow, I can't believe the negativity here. Worse than usual in this thread. I mean wtf... I'm agnostic myself. It's a beautiful place and would be a terrible loss.


Yup. And no one would be blinking if it was a archeological find.


There is a bit of a difference between something that was ruined ages ago, and something that was ruined last year. Though I personally think it would be awesome if some of the old Roman buildings were restored to their original appearance in the same way.
juice Inadvertently correct
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TOS posted:
if you want to be mad at religion, that's cool, go ahead, but don't make silly facile arguments to justify it

we're talking about the middle ages, for heaven's sake

I’m not “mad at religion” just pointing out the inconsistencies and absurdities. It’s my contention that Christ would be appalled at the human waste being done in his name.
maurvir posted:
jkahless posted:
wellfleation posted:
Wow, I can't believe the negativity here. Worse than usual in this thread. I mean wtf... I'm agnostic myself. It's a beautiful place and would be a terrible loss.


Yup. And no one would be blinking if it was a archeological find.


There is a bit of a difference between something that was ruined ages ago, and something that was ruined last year. Though I personally think it would be awesome if some of the old Roman buildings were restored to their original appearance in the same way.

Unfortunately and in particular IN Rome itself, the marble facings of columns in ancient Roman buildings were directly looted to build many cathedrals including St. Peter's. So in a real way if you wish to see those Roman buildings, check the local cathedrals.
Séamas Honorary Consul General
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juice posted:
It’s my contention that Christ would be appalled at the human waste being done in his name.


Anyone can easy contend just about anything that "Jesus" would like or dislike.

That said, losing this piece of art and culture due to apathy would be a shit-stain.
juice Inadvertently correct
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Séamas posted:
juice posted:
It’s my contention that Christ would be appalled at the human waste being done in his name.


Anyone can easy contend just about anything that "Jesus" would like or dislike.

That said, losing this piece of art and culture due to apathy would be a shit-stain.

Compare the things he was reputed to have said and done with just about any organized religion claiming to follow his teachings. Some are less hypocritical than others and some don't even pretend about it.
Séamas Honorary Consul General
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"reputed to have said"

He was reputed to have said many things--some of them quite contradictory.
If anything Judas was "reputed" to have lambasted him for accepting luxuries with disregard to the plight of the poor.
Vulture 420
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I was indoctrinated into the Jesus cult as a child.
TOS
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juice posted:
TOS posted:
if you want to be mad at religion, that's cool, go ahead, but don't make silly facile arguments to justify it

we're talking about the middle ages, for heaven's sake

I’m not “mad at religion” just pointing out the inconsistencies and absurdities. It’s my contention that Christ would be appalled at the human waste being done in his name.


yes, humans are hypocritical and inconsistent and dishonest, but sometimes they can create magnificent works like notre dame

every human achievement in art, science and culture has a trail of lies and suffering behind it
Séamas Honorary Consul General
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TOS posted:
juice posted:
TOS posted:
if you want to be mad at religion, that's cool, go ahead, but don't make silly facile arguments to justify it

we're talking about the middle ages, for heaven's sake

I’m not “mad at religion” just pointing out the inconsistencies and absurdities. It’s my contention that Christ would be appalled at the human waste being done in his name.


yes, humans are hypocritical and inconsistent and dishonest, but sometimes they can create magnificent works like notre dame

every human achievement in art, science and culture has a trail of lies and suffering behind it


Yep. The cathedral is more of a monument to human creativity. As is the bible and all the hymns, symphonys and paintings inspired by it.
I take issue with the 'too fragile to save' paradigm. As much money as was pledged to fix this edifice, I've no doubt they could rig something up cleverly to keep it standing and probably make it even stronger.
So get over there and make it happen, Kirk! We have faith in you! It can be your retirement project!
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notre dame might be "too fragile" to save

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