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maurvir Meat popsicle
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/styl ... quest.html

This was a fascinating read, and I'm not entirely sure how to interpret it just yet. I do think there is a deep need within people, millennials included, for spirituality. However, it is clear the group who bunked with these nuns failed to understand the underlying nature of why these women can do what they do. They were seeking ritual instead of belief. However, I suspect that in time they might start to see that there is a massive difference between genuine faith and religion.
I have to read that when I have a chance. I've been thinking that the ritual of religion is pretty important for us as a species and we have been creating a patchwork of atheist rituals to end up with the same thing.
juice Inadvertently correct
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Provide an example of an atheist ritual.
Our brains seek patterns. Sometimes brains forms their own patterns in reinforcing loops when there otherwise is no pattern. Sometimes the conscious brain substitutes the word "meaning" for "pattern". And here we are. The distinction between secular and spiritual is high level bloat we tack on to the phenomenon of a working brain.
dv
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juice posted:
Provide an example of an atheist ritual.


The thing where I drive around the block and back past my house to make sure I closed the garage door, even though I know I closed it already?
juice posted:
Provide an example of an atheist ritual.

Lying in bed wide awake thinking about all of the stresses of the day and future while still being wired from whatever you were doing, as apposed to doing bedtime prayers which have the effect of letting you acknowledge everything that is bothering you and recognizing that it is something you will deal with later while taking the moment to relax and disconnect from what you were just doing.
juice posted:
Provide an example of an atheist ritual.


watching Maher, Dawkins and Harris repeat themselves to the enthusiastic applause of a studio audience.
user Stupid cockwomble
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Some people may have a deep need for spirituality.

A lot of us increasingly can't be arsed.
dv
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Ribtor posted:
juice posted:
Provide an example of an atheist ritual.


watching Maher, Dawkins and Harris repeat themselves to the enthusiastic applause of a studio audience.


Who? Star Trek is on.
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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Drinking my unaffiliated coffee while reading my secular newspaper.
user Stupid cockwomble
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what's a newspaper?
maurvir Meat popsicle
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For some reason, it took until this morning's meditation to put into words what was wrong with this picture. The millennials want rituals without understanding what the rituals are supposed to be. By themselves, all of that crap is merely religion, and if all you have is religion, you don't have much. Well, technically you do if you are a psychopath, but you don't have what these folks were looking for, which is meaning and relationship.

The nuns understand that the rituals serve the same purpose in their relationship with God that wedding rings serve the rest of us in our relationship with our spouses. That is actually a specifically stated goal in the Bible - "do this in remembrance of me". Within the context of faith, those vows mean something entirely different, for example.

I know I may be one of, if not the only, professing believer left on this site, but this is something that you really do have to experience to understand. For me, my faith is not about religion. In fact, I despise religion by itself. However, even I have rituals which serve as a reminder to me of my relationship and history with Holy Spirit, and most of them are centered around reminding myself to love. The rituals aren't special in and of themselves, and they hold no intrinsic power, but they are helpful in the same way looking at the ring on my finger is.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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I am one with The Force, The Force is with me.
yeah, I finally read it. Wasn't exactly what I was thinking it was about.

I do believe that many religious rituals and routines do have beneficial aspects that are separate from the spiritual aspect, and as we as a culture move away from organized religion we unintentionally move away from ritual and routines that are necessary for things such as personal health and cultural harmony or whatever.

To give better examples:
Nightly prayers act as a moment of peace and quiet that you use to collect your thoughts about the day, express your stresses and worries to someone who effectively listens without interruption. One of the important parts of therapy is to quietly listen while a person talks because as they start verbalizing their feelings and being able to hear themselves objectively they get a better understanding of what is bothering themselves and can often figure out solutions or things they can do without the therapist saying a word. This is similar to the "programmer's rubber ducky" where just talking out the problem out loud helps you figure out a solution. Being able to "push" the problems onto god also helps you internalize that it is a problem that will be dealt with later on, making it easier to have a good night's sleep.

Sunday mass ensures that you have face-to-face time with your neighbors and acquaintances in a neutral territory, allowing you to be able to build and reinforce your social network. This is admittedly most effective in farmer communities where everyone travels to the same church. if your preacher is decent then he helps act as a conductor of the local culture, and acts as a confidant that people can privately express their sins and shames to.
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