When anti-vaxxer idiocy runs up against reality

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maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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The responses are a delight
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02 ... comments=1

Fortunately, it seems these people are capable of learning. It just takes a massive outbreak and international attention to do it.
Unfortunately the true antivaxxers are not at all likely to change their minds. After all some of them are convinced that getting some diseases like the measles during childhood is an absolute good for children.

Those who are now acting to get their kids vaccinated are the "vaccine uncertains" who had been influenced by the antivaxxers into at least delaying vaccines for their children. Undoubtedly some of them will become complainers saying something like "I got my child vaccinated for measles during that outbreak but she got it anyway!" (while ignoring that it does take some time for a vaccine to become effective), using this as a reason to become a full antivaxxer.
justine Elitist Beer Lover
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There is also a third group, and these are the ones that have the most to lose. There are some kids and adults that can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, and if they get any of those diseases, it could likely kill them. Parents that choose not to vaccinate their kid are not only hurting their own kids, but others as well.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Next up: A wave of handicapped kids from unvaccinated mothers getting Rubella while they are pregnant. :goth:
justine posted:
There is also a third group, and these are the ones that have the most to lose. There are some kids and adults that can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, and if they get any of those diseases, it could likely kill them. Parents that choose not to vaccinate their kid are not only hurting their own kids, but others as well.

True, this group is always there.

Funny thing is that the antivaxxers ignore them entirely.
WA antivaxxers rally to protest bill which would eliminate the state's allowance of philosophical exemptions for the measles vaccine.
Quote:
"I don't feel I'm putting my child at risk. There's nothing that's going to change my mind on this on that specific vaccination," said mother Monique Murray.

juice Inadvertently correct
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“Don’t bother me with facts; my mind is made up!”
"The benefits of the measles vaccine go beyond just protecting against measles".

It appears that not only is one's immune system suppressed while infected with the measles, but this suppression may last for anywhere between 3 to 7 years following the infection basically because the infected have to rebuild at least part of their immune systems.

Need it be said that people who had been vaccinated against measles do not suffer the same period of immune system suppression.
ukimalefu Rebel? resistance? why not both?
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maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02 ... comments=1

Quote:
But, as in Oregon, the bill will hit firm opposition from vocal anti-vaccine advocates, who packed Friday’s hearing and murmured disapproval as Dr. Wiesman provided factual information about vaccine safety. One advocate told Post reporters that, if the legislation passes, vaccine opponents would “move out of the state or go underground, but they will not comply.” Another, Nicole Wilson, 32, who is pregnant and against vaccinations, said she, too, is considering moving if the bill passes.


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obvs precoupado
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Yeah. Vaccines should be mandatory everywhere.
juice Inadvertently correct
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These people should be prosecuted for child endangerment.
Old Yoda agitator
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obvs posted:
Yeah. Vaccines should be mandatory everywhere.

The program administered by these people.
juice Inadvertently correct
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There was a kid featured on CBS This Morning who did the research and decided to get vaccinated against the wishes of his mother.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/te ... 4bc4e2a4b4

Quote:
Wheeler told online science magazine Undark that her son’s decision felt like a “slap in the face.”

“It was like him spitting on me,” she said, “saying ‘You don’t know anything, I don’t trust you with anything. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You did make a bad decision and I’m gonna go fix it.’”


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Last edited by maurvir on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:24 pm.

juice Inadvertently correct
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That's the one.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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DukeofNuke FREE RADICAL
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He's 18, so he can legally make his own decisions; and ...
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‘You don’t know anything, I don’t trust you with anything. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You did make a bad decision and I’m gonna go fix it.’”


... yes ...
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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https://slate.com/technology/2019/02/me ... blown.html

Author claims that, while friggin morons, anti-vaxxers aren't the threat to national security that they seem to be.
maurvir posted:
https://slate.com/technology/2019/02/me ... blown.html

Author claims that, while friggin morons, anti-vaxxers aren't the threat to national security that they seem to be.

Most of what the author wrote is true (though some were somewhat unfair like comparing the current US number of measles infections with the numbers during the last US outbreak during 1989 through 1991 which was when doctors figured out that a second inoculation against measles was required), but he isn't telling the whole story.

For the calendar year of 2018 in Europe there were almost 83,000 cases of measles. Over 54,000 of these were reported in Ukraine (which had its own unique problems of vaccine refusals, inadequate supplies and the possibility that up to 2001 the measles vaccine from a Russian supplier was ineffective such that an estimated 20,000 of those who were infected last year had received that "bad" vaccine), but look at that remainder: over 28,000 measles infections in the rest of Europe. Most of these are spread across several countries: Romania, Greece, France, Italy. Most of these countries have overall measles inoculation rates in the mid- to upper-80%, but where the rates fall to truly inadequate levels is among the young starting with those who are about 20 years old now with decreasing rates as age decreases mostly due to vaccine refusal by their parents.

For now in the US we have had isolated pockets of unvaccinated that we have contained them relatively easily.

For now.
One consequence of measles being endemic in France: Costa Rica gets its first case of measles in 5 years from 5-year-old French tourist.

Reportedly the child--who had not been vaccinated for measles--picked up his infection from a classmate in France, then accompanied his parents on vacation to Costa Rica. Health officials there are scrambling to warn others who may have encountered the family to limit the spread of the infection.

The mother of that child likewise was not vaccinated for measles, but it is yet unclear if she had been previously infected and thus immune from her child's infection.

Cory Doctorow wonders here if it might be time for some countries like Costa Rica to turn away tourists without proof of getting MMR and other vaccines.
user Stupid cockwomble
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How about IQ tests?
juice Inadvertently correct
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Weapons-grade stupid.
dv
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macnuke Afar
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dv posted:


love it...

Meanwhile, public health inspectors were forcing restaurant owners to eat an entire raw chicken so they learn about the dangers caused by temperature abuse.
juice Inadvertently correct
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I assume that’s an onion article.
TOS
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canadian equivalent, yes
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-m ... -30-years/
https://www.acsh.org/news/2019/03/07/un ... ison-13863

Quote:
An unvaccinated 6-year-old boy from Oregon is the first child to be diagnosed with tetanus in the state for more than 30 years. The incident took place in 2017, the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reports, when he fell and cut his forehead while playing outside at a farm.

The wound was cleaned but six days later, he experienced jaw clenching, involuntary upper extremity muscle spasms, arching of the neck and back (opisthotonus), and spasticity. Then, he started to have trouble breathing. At which point, his parents called the emergency services, who airlifted him to a pediatric medical center where he received a diagnosis of tetanus. He ended up sedated, intubated and on a ventilator to help him breathe.

...

As for the boy from Oregon, he required almost two months' worth of inpatient care, plus rehabilitation, worth more than $800,000. Fortunately, he is now fully recovered, but people who recover from tetanus do not have natural immunity and so still need to be vaccinated. His family has still declined to do so.


Once again, I have no words to sufficiently describe how insanely stupid these people are. :facepalm:
juice Inadvertently correct
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I don't like this thread anymore. The stupid hurts.
justine Elitist Beer Lover
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So, i got a measles vaccination yesterday because i fall into that age void that wasn't covered. Am i gonna get autism?? ;)
The thing is, even if you believe vaccines causes autism you shouldn't need any scientific research to prove it. The vast majority of adults have been vaccinated so it's likely that you or your friends or at least most of the people you know have been vaccinated. It would be trivial to casually ask your friends and family (and yourself) if they had been vaccinated as a kid, then talk to them some more to see if they seem autusticky.

And if you can't tell, does it really matter?

There's no reason to bring up any evidence in a debate with these people. Just ask them if they are vaccinated and autistic, of if people they know are consistently vaccinated AND autistic.
dv
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Betonhaus posted:
The thing is, even if you believe vaccines causes autism you shouldn't need any scientific research to prove it. The vast majority of adults have been vaccinated so it's likely that you or your friends or at least most of the people you know have been vaccinated. It would be trivial to casually ask your friends and family (and yourself) if they had been vaccinated as a kid, then talk to them some more to see if they seem autusticky.

And if you can't tell, does it really matter?

There's no reason to bring up any evidence in a debate with these people. Just ask them if they are vaccinated and autistic, of if people they know are consistently vaccinated AND autistic.

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dv posted:
Betonhaus posted:
The thing is, even if you believe vaccines causes autism you shouldn't need any scientific research to prove it. The vast majority of adults have been vaccinated so it's likely that you or your friends or at least most of the people you know have been vaccinated. It would be trivial to casually ask your friends and family (and yourself) if they had been vaccinated as a kid, then talk to them some more to see if they seem autusticky.

And if you can't tell, does it really matter?

There's no reason to bring up any evidence in a debate with these people. Just ask them if they are vaccinated and autistic, of if people they know are consistently vaccinated AND autistic.

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whoosh
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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justine posted:
So, i got a measles vaccination yesterday because i fall into that age void that wasn't covered. Am i gonna get autism?? ;)

I had Measles twice when I was real young. :shrug:
C. Ives Lacks Critical stick fiddling Thinking
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justine posted:
So, i got a measles vaccination yesterday because i fall into that age void that wasn't covered. Am i gonna get autism?? ;)

High Five, I got mine Friday!
macnuke Afar
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C. Ives posted:
justine posted:
So, i got a measles vaccination yesterday because i fall into that age void that wasn't covered. Am i gonna get autism?? ;)

High Five, I got mine Friday!

the vaccination or autism? :paranoid:
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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Wan't there a Partridge Family measles special?
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When anti-vaxxer idiocy runs up against reality

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