Electric cars are the future

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TOS
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Post by TOS »

Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: gm has agreed to reopen its huge factory in oshawa (just outside toronto) ... the shutdown was devastating to the community

General Motors GM recently announced that its workers in Canada, represented by Unifor, have agreed to a new three-year collective agreement between the union body and the company.The deal encompasses General Motors’ investment to the tune of $1.3 billion, creating 1,700 jobs in the Oshawa plant. More than $109 million will be invested to facilitate V-8 engine and transmission production in St. Catharines.The Oshawa plant will resume production of both light and heavy-duty trucks in 2022, and St. Catharines will manufacture engines for those pick-ups.Unifor’s deal with General Motors marks the third consecutive win for the union body after it struck similar deals with Ford and Fiat Chrysler.


initially there reports that evs would be built at that factory, but they're going with big ol' ice motors

I'd bet a dollar that pickup trucks are the very last vehicles that will be built with ICE engines assuming ICE are not outlawed before that.
I'd bet another dollar on big Diesel pickups will remain in demand longer than gas V8 will and most of those will be bough by dentists and accountants.


yeah, pickups are the last bastion of ice vehicles that are still profitable, so they'll be the last straw for sure
"TOS ain’t havin no horserace round here. “Policies” is the coin of the realm." -- iDaemon
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Pariah
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Post by Pariah »

TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: gm has agreed to reopen its huge factory in oshawa (just outside toronto) ... the shutdown was devastating to the community

General Motors GM recently announced that its workers in Canada, represented by Unifor, have agreed to a new three-year collective agreement between the union body and the company.The deal encompasses General Motors’ investment to the tune of $1.3 billion, creating 1,700 jobs in the Oshawa plant. More than $109 million will be invested to facilitate V-8 engine and transmission production in St. Catharines.The Oshawa plant will resume production of both light and heavy-duty trucks in 2022, and St. Catharines will manufacture engines for those pick-ups.Unifor’s deal with General Motors marks the third consecutive win for the union body after it struck similar deals with Ford and Fiat Chrysler.


initially there reports that evs would be built at that factory, but they're going with big ol' ice motors

I'd bet a dollar that pickup trucks are the very last vehicles that will be built with ICE engines assuming ICE are not outlawed before that.
I'd bet another dollar on big Diesel pickups will remain in demand longer than gas V8 will and most of those will be bough by dentists and accountants.


yeah, pickups are the last bastion of ice vehicles that are still profitable, so they'll be the last straw for sure

It is more than that.
You have to understand that in a certain demographic there is an almost Shinto-like cult of ancestor worship. Something you see in the South and rural areas where men would feel like they were betraying their forefathers if they did not drive a smoking, belching, road crushing big pickup.
In the same way these same men will refuse to adopt healthier eating habits because their daddies ate smoked brisket for breakfast, lunch and dinner and to not do the same thing is to say your daddy was wrong and that brings dishonor into the picture.
Then there is the political angle where eating healthy and caring about the environment are both seen as subversively liberal ideas. Eating a salad is a dangerous baby step towards becoming a communist. Driving an EV of any description would be a BIG step in that dreadful direction.
Not even duct tape will fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.
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Post by TOS »

Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: gm has agreed to reopen its huge factory in oshawa (just outside toronto) ... the shutdown was devastating to the community

General Motors GM recently announced that its workers in Canada, represented by Unifor, have agreed to a new three-year collective agreement between the union body and the company.The deal encompasses General Motors’ investment to the tune of $1.3 billion, creating 1,700 jobs in the Oshawa plant. More than $109 million will be invested to facilitate V-8 engine and transmission production in St. Catharines.The Oshawa plant will resume production of both light and heavy-duty trucks in 2022, and St. Catharines will manufacture engines for those pick-ups.Unifor’s deal with General Motors marks the third consecutive win for the union body after it struck similar deals with Ford and Fiat Chrysler.


initially there reports that evs would be built at that factory, but they're going with big ol' ice motors

I'd bet a dollar that pickup trucks are the very last vehicles that will be built with ICE engines assuming ICE are not outlawed before that.
I'd bet another dollar on big Diesel pickups will remain in demand longer than gas V8 will and most of those will be bough by dentists and accountants.


yeah, pickups are the last bastion of ice vehicles that are still profitable, so they'll be the last straw for sure

It is more than that.
You have to understand that in a certain demographic there is an almost Shinto-like cult of ancestor worship. Something you see in the South and rural areas where men would feel like they were betraying their forefathers if they did not drive a smoking, belching, road crushing big pickup.
In the same way these same men will refuse to adopt healthier eating habits because their daddies ate smoked brisket for breakfast, lunch and dinner and to not do the same thing is to say your daddy was wrong and that brings dishonor into the picture.
Then there is the political angle where eating healthy and caring about the environment are both seen as subversively liberal ideas. Eating a salad is a dangerous baby step towards becoming a communist. Driving an EV of any description would be a BIG step in that dreadful direction.


of course they're huge in rural areas, but how big a percentage of the global market are american rednecks?

edit:

a bit of googling indicates that 3 million pickups were sold in the usa last year, while global sales for electric vehicles is just over 2 million

early days yet, clearly, but as adoption of evs grow, pickups will start to become a niche market

and one wonders what will happen to the infrastructure oer time -- gas stations, spare parts, etc
"TOS ain’t havin no horserace round here. “Policies” is the coin of the realm." -- iDaemon
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Post by Pariah »

TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: gm has agreed to reopen its huge factory in oshawa (just outside toronto) ... the shutdown was devastating to the community

General Motors GM recently announced that its workers in Canada, represented by Unifor, have agreed to a new three-year collective agreement between the union body and the company.The deal encompasses General Motors’ investment to the tune of $1.3 billion, creating 1,700 jobs in the Oshawa plant. More than $109 million will be invested to facilitate V-8 engine and transmission production in St. Catharines.The Oshawa plant will resume production of both light and heavy-duty trucks in 2022, and St. Catharines will manufacture engines for those pick-ups.Unifor’s deal with General Motors marks the third consecutive win for the union body after it struck similar deals with Ford and Fiat Chrysler.


initially there reports that evs would be built at that factory, but they're going with big ol' ice motors

I'd bet a dollar that pickup trucks are the very last vehicles that will be built with ICE engines assuming ICE are not outlawed before that.
I'd bet another dollar on big Diesel pickups will remain in demand longer than gas V8 will and most of those will be bough by dentists and accountants.


yeah, pickups are the last bastion of ice vehicles that are still profitable, so they'll be the last straw for sure

It is more than that.
You have to understand that in a certain demographic there is an almost Shinto-like cult of ancestor worship. Something you see in the South and rural areas where men would feel like they were betraying their forefathers if they did not drive a smoking, belching, road crushing big pickup.
In the same way these same men will refuse to adopt healthier eating habits because their daddies ate smoked brisket for breakfast, lunch and dinner and to not do the same thing is to say your daddy was wrong and that brings dishonor into the picture.
Then there is the political angle where eating healthy and caring about the environment are both seen as subversively liberal ideas. Eating a salad is a dangerous baby step towards becoming a communist. Driving an EV of any description would be a BIG step in that dreadful direction.


of course they're huge in rural areas, but how big a percentage of the global market are american rednecks?

edit:

a bit of googling indicates that 3 million pickups were sold in the usa last year, while global sales for electric vehicles is just over 2 million

early days yet, clearly, but as adoption of evs grow, pickups will start to become a niche market

and one wonders what will happen to the infrastructure oer time -- gas stations, spare parts, etc

Oh, I know it will be a niche, I am just saying that I think the whole ICE era will have a long tail on it unless ICE are outlawed entirely, something I just don't see happening in the USA.
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Post by TOS »

Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: gm has agreed to reopen its huge factory in oshawa (just outside toronto) ... the shutdown was devastating to the community

General Motors GM recently announced that its workers in Canada, represented by Unifor, have agreed to a new three-year collective agreement between the union body and the company.The deal encompasses General Motors’ investment to the tune of $1.3 billion, creating 1,700 jobs in the Oshawa plant. More than $109 million will be invested to facilitate V-8 engine and transmission production in St. Catharines.The Oshawa plant will resume production of both light and heavy-duty trucks in 2022, and St. Catharines will manufacture engines for those pick-ups.Unifor’s deal with General Motors marks the third consecutive win for the union body after it struck similar deals with Ford and Fiat Chrysler.


initially there reports that evs would be built at that factory, but they're going with big ol' ice motors

I'd bet a dollar that pickup trucks are the very last vehicles that will be built with ICE engines assuming ICE are not outlawed before that.
I'd bet another dollar on big Diesel pickups will remain in demand longer than gas V8 will and most of those will be bough by dentists and accountants.


yeah, pickups are the last bastion of ice vehicles that are still profitable, so they'll be the last straw for sure

It is more than that.
You have to understand that in a certain demographic there is an almost Shinto-like cult of ancestor worship. Something you see in the South and rural areas where men would feel like they were betraying their forefathers if they did not drive a smoking, belching, road crushing big pickup.
In the same way these same men will refuse to adopt healthier eating habits because their daddies ate smoked brisket for breakfast, lunch and dinner and to not do the same thing is to say your daddy was wrong and that brings dishonor into the picture.
Then there is the political angle where eating healthy and caring about the environment are both seen as subversively liberal ideas. Eating a salad is a dangerous baby step towards becoming a communist. Driving an EV of any description would be a BIG step in that dreadful direction.


of course they're huge in rural areas, but how big a percentage of the global market are american rednecks?

edit:

a bit of googling indicates that 3 million pickups were sold in the usa last year, while global sales for electric vehicles is just over 2 million

early days yet, clearly, but as adoption of evs grow, pickups will start to become a niche market

and one wonders what will happen to the infrastructure oer time -- gas stations, spare parts, etc

Oh, I know it will be a niche, I am just saying that I think the whole ICE era will have a long tail on it unless ICE are outlawed entirely, something I just don't see happening in the USA.


probably right, especially in the us of a

jurisdictions around the world, however, are on track to ban internal combustion entirely ... god knows if they'll actually follow through, but if they do it will be very interesting to see

canada has similar problems, not just the love of pickups, but the very long distances and lingering suspicions of the technology
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Post by ukimalefu »

The UK moves up deadline to ban the sale of combustion-engine vehicles

The United Kingdom will ban the sale of new combustion-engine vehicles by 2030, Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced today. It will also ban the sale of new hybrid cars by 2035. Johnson made the announcement tonight as part of a new ten-point plan for a “green industrial revolution.”

This is the second time Johnson has moved up the deadline. The original plan was to stop sales of petrol and diesel-powered vehicles by 2040. Back in February, Johnson moved the target to 2035. He’s come under increasing pressure to crack down on gas-guzzling cars in order to meet the UK’s broader goal of eliminating emissions contributing to climate change by 2050.
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Post by Pariah »

TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote:
Pariah wrote:
TOS wrote: gm has agreed to reopen its huge factory in oshawa (just outside toronto) ... the shutdown was devastating to the community

General Motors GM recently announced that its workers in Canada, represented by Unifor, have agreed to a new three-year collective agreement between the union body and the company.The deal encompasses General Motors’ investment to the tune of $1.3 billion, creating 1,700 jobs in the Oshawa plant. More than $109 million will be invested to facilitate V-8 engine and transmission production in St. Catharines.The Oshawa plant will resume production of both light and heavy-duty trucks in 2022, and St. Catharines will manufacture engines for those pick-ups.Unifor’s deal with General Motors marks the third consecutive win for the union body after it struck similar deals with Ford and Fiat Chrysler.


initially there reports that evs would be built at that factory, but they're going with big ol' ice motors

I'd bet a dollar that pickup trucks are the very last vehicles that will be built with ICE engines assuming ICE are not outlawed before that.
I'd bet another dollar on big Diesel pickups will remain in demand longer than gas V8 will and most of those will be bough by dentists and accountants.


yeah, pickups are the last bastion of ice vehicles that are still profitable, so they'll be the last straw for sure

It is more than that.
You have to understand that in a certain demographic there is an almost Shinto-like cult of ancestor worship. Something you see in the South and rural areas where men would feel like they were betraying their forefathers if they did not drive a smoking, belching, road crushing big pickup.
In the same way these same men will refuse to adopt healthier eating habits because their daddies ate smoked brisket for breakfast, lunch and dinner and to not do the same thing is to say your daddy was wrong and that brings dishonor into the picture.
Then there is the political angle where eating healthy and caring about the environment are both seen as subversively liberal ideas. Eating a salad is a dangerous baby step towards becoming a communist. Driving an EV of any description would be a BIG step in that dreadful direction.


of course they're huge in rural areas, but how big a percentage of the global market are american rednecks?

edit:

a bit of googling indicates that 3 million pickups were sold in the usa last year, while global sales for electric vehicles is just over 2 million

early days yet, clearly, but as adoption of evs grow, pickups will start to become a niche market

and one wonders what will happen to the infrastructure oer time -- gas stations, spare parts, etc

Oh, I know it will be a niche, I am just saying that I think the whole ICE era will have a long tail on it unless ICE are outlawed entirely, something I just don't see happening in the USA.


probably right, especially in the us of a

jurisdictions around the world, however, are on track to ban internal combustion entirely ... god knows if they'll actually follow through, but if they do it will be very interesting to see

canada has similar problems, not just the love of pickups, but the very long distances and lingering suspicions of the technology

Poorer areas are unlikely to abandon cheap little ICE driven vehicles any time soon. China and India will both be building ICE vehicles for the poor masses long after the West has abandoned them.
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Post by ukimalefu »

General Motors’ electric vehicle plan just got bigger, bolder, and more expensive

GM says it will spend $27 billion by 2025 to release 30 EVs globally


“Climate change is real, and we want to be part of the solution by putting everyone in an electric vehicle,” Barra said in a statement. “We are transitioning to an all-electric portfolio from a position of strength and we’re focused on growth. We can accelerate our EV plans because we are rapidly building a competitive advantage in batteries, software, vehicle integration, manufacturing and customer experience.”
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Post by TOS »

gm says a new breakthrough in battery tech will dramatically lower costs and extend range to 450 miles on a charge

link: https://t.co/kDxP7yBdpZ
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Post by Pariah »

One thing for sure. Countries with big lithium deposits better mind their manners, they are the new oil producers and that means the USA will sweep in and overthrow any government that resists being exploited by American corporations.
We will be going from "blood for oil" to "blood for lithium".
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Post by mmaverick »

A lot of research is going into lithium alternatives like sodium.
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Post by mmaverick »

TOS wrote: gm says a new breakthrough in battery tech will dramatically lower costs and extend range to 450 miles on a charge

link: https://t.co/kDxP7yBdpZ


This stuff could be potentially very exciting in the diy community. With the upcoming crate motor, it should be easier to use crashed bolts, possibly even with CCS charging. Top that off with far more efficient batteries, and conversions could get a lot easier in the next couple years.

Hopefully they end up selling modular battery configurations.
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Post by ukimalefu »

Pariah wrote: One thing for sure. Countries with big lithium deposits better mind their manners, they are the new oil producers and that means the USA will sweep in and overthrow any government that resists being exploited by American corporations.
We will be going from "blood for oil" to "blood for lithium".


China is already in many countries that have minerals used for tech
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Post by TOS »

ukimalefu wrote:
Pariah wrote: One thing for sure. Countries with big lithium deposits better mind their manners, they are the new oil producers and that means the USA will sweep in and overthrow any government that resists being exploited by American corporations.
We will be going from "blood for oil" to "blood for lithium".


China is already in many countries that have minerals used for tech


i seem to recall reading that japan found massive reserves of rare earth minerals not long ago
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Post by Pariah »

TOS wrote:
ukimalefu wrote:
Pariah wrote: One thing for sure. Countries with big lithium deposits better mind their manners, they are the new oil producers and that means the USA will sweep in and overthrow any government that resists being exploited by American corporations.
We will be going from "blood for oil" to "blood for lithium".


China is already in many countries that have minerals used for tech


i seem to recall reading that japan found massive reserves of rare earth minerals not long ago

The thing is that "rare earths" are not really all that rare but the extraction process is an environmental nightmare that makes extracting oil shale look clean by comparison. The USA has lots of rare earth, they just cannot be extracted profitably under current environmental protections.
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Post by ukimalefu »

Electric car that never needs charging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbLQ6Z0u_qo

We deliver that freedom by designing electric vehicles with extreme efficiency- using low-drag aerodynamics inspired by nature, able to travel 1,000 miles on a single charge and power themselves just by being parked in the sun. For us, that's the real meaning of independence, and what keeps us accelerating into the future


Up to 1000 miles range. The whole top is solar panels (except the windshield/windows I suppose). I read somewhere that it can be charged and you only get max range with solar+charging. But I lost that link. So, longest range of any electric car? maybe, never needs charge? maybe not for everyday short commutes.

The cars website:

https://www.aptera.us/

Seems like 2 seats only, small cargo space (just guessing from looking at it)

Their website won't let me hotlink or download images, so fiddlesticks them, i can still take screenshots:

Image

25,900 to 46,000 dollars, sold out

You need to be a true sci-fi geek to like it

found an article on it

https://hypebeast.com/2020/12/aptera-mo ... r-charging
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Post by juice »

I would buy a small truck with those qualities
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Post by Metacell »

Seems like a perfect to work and back commuter vehicle.
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Post by j_tso »

Aptera has been peddling that design since 2004 or thereabouts. Back then they were trying to get it classified as a motorcycle because of the lack of a 4th wheel.
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Post by dv »

j_tso wrote: Aptera has been peddling that design since 2004 or thereabouts. Back then they were trying to get it classified as a motorcycle because of the lack of a 4th wheel.


Also the Polaris Slingshot. I see a few of them around in nice weather.
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Post by ukimalefu »

Toyota claims that its newly developed batteries can also enable a maximum EV range of 500km in one full charge and a zero to 100% charging time of just 10 minutes, “all with minimal safety concerns.”


https://www.topgear.com.ph/news/technol ... 4-20201210
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Post by TOS »

porsche says it's keeping the 911 an internal combustion only vehicle

basically, they believe that electric vehicles should be separate models, not frankensteinian transformations
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Post by TOS »

electric f-650 truck in development with 100-mile range, intended for short-range hauling

Image
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Post by macnuke »

TOS wrote: porsche says it's keeping the 911 an internal combustion only vehicle

basically, they believe that electric vehicles should be separate models, not frankensteinian transformations


I approve this.
so much that can be changed from the norm with an ICE

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Post by ukimalefu »

TOS wrote: porsche says it's keeping the 911 an internal combustion only vehicle

basically, they believe that electric vehicles should be separate models, not frankensteinian transformations


the electric porsche is basically an electric 911, and they call it a "turbo" because they're idiots

But it's considered a good electric car

Image

Oh, sorry, it looks nothing like a 911 because the headlights aren't round.
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Post by ukimalefu »

Mustang Mach-E electric SUV up close (but no driving)

it looks good, and it may be a good electric car, I don't know. But sorry Ford, that's not a Mustang.
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Post by j_tso »

People will buy it if it's called a Mustang.

More people will buy it if it's called a Mustang Turbo.
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Post by ukimalefu »

I'm very sorry, but this video does NOT feature any electric cars. Only real Mustangs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73gy-qFcllM
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Post by DukeofNuke »

ukimalefu wrote: I'm very sorry, but this video does NOT feature any electric cars. Only real Mustangs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73gy-qFcllM


"Real Mustangs"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gq7no2ZQCM
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Post by Robert »

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Post by TOS »

prices are dropping

an estimated two years till electrics are on par, price-wise, with ice vehicles
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Post by DukeofNuke »

What about miles per dollar?
I predict the price of oil and gas to come down, to stay competitive .
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Post by TOS »

well, as demand drops so will prices, but i don't expect it to change anything ... i really get the sense that consumers are ready to move on (hear that, ribby???)

besides, all the major automakers have said they'll stop making internal combustion vehicles within the next few years, so there just won't be much supply
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Post by Pariah »

ukimalefu wrote: Electric car that never needs charging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbLQ6Z0u_qo

We deliver that freedom by designing electric vehicles with extreme efficiency- using low-drag aerodynamics inspired by nature, able to travel 1,000 miles on a single charge and power themselves just by being parked in the sun. For us, that's the real meaning of independence, and what keeps us accelerating into the future


Up to 1000 miles range. The whole top is solar panels (except the windshield/windows I suppose). I read somewhere that it can be charged and you only get max range with solar+charging. But I lost that link. So, longest range of any electric car? maybe, never needs charge? maybe not for everyday short commutes.

The cars website:

https://www.aptera.us/

Seems like 2 seats only, small cargo space (just guessing from looking at it)

Their website won't let me hotlink or download images, so fiddlesticks them, i can still take screenshots:

Image

25,900 to 46,000 dollars, sold out

You need to be a true sci-fi geek to like it

found an article on it

https://hypebeast.com/2020/12/aptera-mo ... r-charging

This thing looks as crash worthy as a kit car. Might as well be driving a 68 VW bug.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/16/94562663 ... lLp8I-6y3Y

Image

I find the graph at the bottom of the article interesting
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Post by maurvir »

I keep waiting for electric vehicles that are 1) affordable, 2) have the same range as gas vehicles, and 3) aren't fugly as hell.
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TOS
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Post by TOS »

maurvir wrote: I keep waiting for electric vehicles that are 1) affordable, 2) have the same range as gas vehicles, and 3) aren't fugly as hell.


TOS wrote:an estimated two years till electrics are on par, price-wise, with ice vehicles
"TOS ain’t havin no horserace round here. “Policies” is the coin of the realm." -- iDaemon
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Metacell
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Post by Metacell »

TOS wrote:
maurvir wrote: I keep waiting for electric vehicles that are 1) affordable, 2) have the same range as gas vehicles, and 3) aren't fugly as hell.


TOS wrote:an estimated two years till electrics are on par, price-wise, with ice vehicles

So in other words, 10 years for a used one.
Remember, people, to forgive is divine. In other words, it ain't human.
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ukimalefu
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Post by ukimalefu »

Metacell wrote:
TOS wrote:
maurvir wrote: I keep waiting for electric vehicles that are 1) affordable, 2) have the same range as gas vehicles, and 3) aren't fugly as hell.


TOS wrote:an estimated two years till electrics are on par, price-wise, with ice vehicles

So in other words, 10 years for a used one.


How long until the hover conversions?

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