Electric cars are the future

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TOS
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Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
so it seems harley-davidson's electric cycle has officially flopped

not surprising, since, although it was slick and apparently well-made, cost as much as a tesla

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... od-qc/amp/
It didn't flop, just has a glitch preventing them from charging from 120v sources. And they are 30k, which is not much higher than upper range models of ice motorcycles.


it costs more than an aprilia

no one is going to put a harley in that class

Harley will not survive the electric future. The only thing that sells Harley's is that big V-twin and that Harley sound.
Without that they have nothing.

Which is why they are getting ahead of the game. The LiveWire is the first proper electric motorcycle and is in a position to define the field. I'm pretty confident they can survive the pivot. They plan to be the Canon of the new world and not the Kodak.


not even close to the first
DukeofNuke FREE RADICAL
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juice posted:
/me looks at his Kodak inkjet printer

... made by Lexmark?
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
so it seems harley-davidson's electric cycle has officially flopped

not surprising, since, although it was slick and apparently well-made, cost as much as a tesla

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... od-qc/amp/
It didn't flop, just has a glitch preventing them from charging from 120v sources. And they are 30k, which is not much higher than upper range models of ice motorcycles.


it costs more than an aprilia

no one is going to put a harley in that class

Harley will not survive the electric future. The only thing that sells Harley's is that big V-twin and that Harley sound.
Without that they have nothing.

Which is why they are getting ahead of the game. The LiveWire is the first proper electric motorcycle and is in a position to define the field. I'm pretty confident they can survive the pivot. They plan to be the Canon of the new world and not the Kodak.


not even close to the first

First one from a company that has at least one dealership in my city. I'm not buying one online or driving down to San Francisco to pick it up.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
so it seems harley-davidson's electric cycle has officially flopped

not surprising, since, although it was slick and apparently well-made, cost as much as a tesla

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... od-qc/amp/
It didn't flop, just has a glitch preventing them from charging from 120v sources. And they are 30k, which is not much higher than upper range models of ice motorcycles.


it costs more than an aprilia

no one is going to put a harley in that class

Harley will not survive the electric future. The only thing that sells Harley's is that big V-twin and that Harley sound.
Without that they have nothing.

Which is why they are getting ahead of the game. The LiveWire is the first proper electric motorcycle and is in a position to define the field. I'm pretty confident they can survive the pivot. They plan to be the Canon of the new world and not the Kodak.

I doubt it. Harley has tried to sell alternatives to their traditional big iron, locomotive heavy big bikes and got no where. They attempted several times to sell a sport bike and flopped every time.
Even if Harley produces a really excellent bike it will only be a matter of time before the Japanese move in and eat the market.
Harley's have not sold on merit for a good 50 years now. Harley is an icon and a legend fraught with a big mythology. Take away that big, inefficient V-twin and that sound and it ain't a Harley anymore.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
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Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
so it seems harley-davidson's electric cycle has officially flopped

not surprising, since, although it was slick and apparently well-made, cost as much as a tesla

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... od-qc/amp/
It didn't flop, just has a glitch preventing them from charging from 120v sources. And they are 30k, which is not much higher than upper range models of ice motorcycles.


it costs more than an aprilia

no one is going to put a harley in that class

Harley will not survive the electric future. The only thing that sells Harley's is that big V-twin and that Harley sound.
Without that they have nothing.


They also have “I can wrench it myself”

Which is handy, because your Harley is always busted.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
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Though, I can’t imagine many 1%ers are going to be turning in their harley for a Zero any time soon.
ukimalefu dysfunctional
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Harley-Davidson says they fixed the e-bike charging problem, and that only one bike had the problem.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/209 ... deliveries
ukimalefu dysfunctional
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Ford will unveil its Mustang-inspired electric SUV on November 17th

Quote:
codenamed “Mach 1”


I doubt it will break the speed of sound, but ok

Quote:
There’s been speculation that it will cost around $50,000, come in short and long-range variants, and be available in rear or all-wheel drive configurations.



Maaaybe the shortest range, rear wheel drive only could be close to 50k$. Maybe.
TOS
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Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
so it seems harley-davidson's electric cycle has officially flopped

not surprising, since, although it was slick and apparently well-made, cost as much as a tesla

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... od-qc/amp/
It didn't flop, just has a glitch preventing them from charging from 120v sources. And they are 30k, which is not much higher than upper range models of ice motorcycles.


it costs more than an aprilia

no one is going to put a harley in that class

Harley will not survive the electric future. The only thing that sells Harley's is that big V-twin and that Harley sound.
Without that they have nothing.

Which is why they are getting ahead of the game. The LiveWire is the first proper electric motorcycle and is in a position to define the field. I'm pretty confident they can survive the pivot. They plan to be the Canon of the new world and not the Kodak.

I doubt it. Harley has tried to sell alternatives to their traditional big iron, locomotive heavy big bikes and got no where. They attempted several times to sell a sport bike and flopped every time.
Even if Harley produces a really excellent bike it will only be a matter of time before the Japanese move in and eat the market.
Harley's have not sold on merit for a good 50 years now. Harley is an icon and a legend fraught with a big mythology. Take away that big, inefficient V-twin and that sound and it ain't a Harley anymore.


well that's okay, though, because the old harley was pretty much a phenomenon of the boomers; their sales have been declining for years as their customer base has aged out of biking

so basically if they go electric, they're screwed; if they don't -- they're screwed
ukimalefu dysfunctional
User avatar
TOS posted:
Pariah posted:
Betonhaus posted:
Pariah posted:
TOS posted:
Betonhaus posted:
TOS posted:
so it seems harley-davidson's electric cycle has officially flopped

not surprising, since, although it was slick and apparently well-made, cost as much as a tesla

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billrobers ... od-qc/amp/
It didn't flop, just has a glitch preventing them from charging from 120v sources. And they are 30k, which is not much higher than upper range models of ice motorcycles.


it costs more than an aprilia

no one is going to put a harley in that class

Harley will not survive the electric future. The only thing that sells Harley's is that big V-twin and that Harley sound.
Without that they have nothing.

Which is why they are getting ahead of the game. The LiveWire is the first proper electric motorcycle and is in a position to define the field. I'm pretty confident they can survive the pivot. They plan to be the Canon of the new world and not the Kodak.

I doubt it. Harley has tried to sell alternatives to their traditional big iron, locomotive heavy big bikes and got no where. They attempted several times to sell a sport bike and flopped every time.
Even if Harley produces a really excellent bike it will only be a matter of time before the Japanese move in and eat the market.
Harley's have not sold on merit for a good 50 years now. Harley is an icon and a legend fraught with a big mythology. Take away that big, inefficient V-twin and that sound and it ain't a Harley anymore.


well that's okay, though, because the old harley was pretty much a phenomenon of the boomers; their sales have been declining for years as their customer base has aged out of biking

so basically if they go electric, they're screwed; if they don't -- they're screwed


I wouldn't buy an actual ICE, V-twin (or whatever is called) Harley, but their electric looks cool. But, I may have said this before, if I could afford the price, I'd prefer to expend that on a Tesla model 3.
TOS
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looks identical to all the other crossovers in the planet
ukimalefu dysfunctional
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*Spoiler alert* I'm posting this here

James May has bought a new car!
That man has a pink face.
Séamas Honorary Consul General
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Image

I think I mentioned this on a thread some time ago.
My great-grandfather's brother was killed when the car pictured above--The electric Baker Torpedo --veered into the spectators when the driver, Walter Baker was attempting to set the land speed record in 1902.
Great grandfather's brother was an Irish famine refugee who later managed to serve time in both Union (disrespecting an officer) and Confederate (POW) prisons when serving with the Union Army.
From a couple accounts I have seen his death was the first recorded fatality of a motorsport spectator in US history.
juice Inadvertently correct
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That's an interesting story. Those tires don't look like they were designed to have a lot of grip or control.
Séamas Honorary Consul General
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juice posted:
That's an interesting story. Those tires don't look like they were designed to have a lot of grip or control.



I think the car was largely intended to go down a straightaway. The wheels are spoked like bicycle wheels and covered in canvas for aerodynamics.

Other than the heavy batteries, the rest of it was apparently very light-weight.

Some (dubious) accounts had it going in excess of 100mph.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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Séamas posted:
Image

I think I mentioned this on a thread some time ago.
My great-grandfather's brother was killed when the car pictured above--The electric Baker Torpedo --veered into the spectators when the driver, Walter Baker was attempting to set the land speed record in 1902.
Great grandfather's brother was an Irish famine refugee who later managed to serve time in both Union (disrespecting an officer) and Confederate (POW) prisons when serving with the Union Army.
From a couple accounts I have seen his death was the first recorded fatality of a motorsport spectator in US history.

If you find yourself making turns in an LSR car you are doing it wrong.
mmaverick my steady systematic decline
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The electric mustang at SEMA looks snazzy.
TOS
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and apparently it has stickshift, which is just ridiculous
dv
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TOS posted:
and apparently it has stickshift, which is just ridiculous


Image
Oh thank God. Even if it only pretends to be a sports car it needs a stick shift.
dv
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Betonhaus posted:
Oh thank God. Even if it only pretends to be a sports car it needs a stick shift.


Image
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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TOS
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juice Inadvertently correct
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I prefer a manual transmission. :shrug:
DukeofNuke FREE RADICAL
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For me,it depends on the car.
A Wrangler climbing a trail? Standard. (There is actually debate in the Jeep community over this)
A sports car on a twisty switchback? Standard.
A pickup towing a camper? Automatic !
TOS
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juice posted:
I prefer a manual transmission. :shrug:


cool

still makes zero sense for an electric vehicle
dv posted:
TOS posted:
and apparently it has stickshift, which is just ridiculous


Image

TOS
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like i said ... zero sense
Vulture 420
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A two gear electric motor transmission would be AMAZING. A Tesla P100D will annihilate any supercar off the starting line, but given enough distance down a track, the supercar will win the race as a Tesla will no longer be able to accelerate at top speeds while the other driver will be shifting into top gear and blowing by. If electrics like the Teslas with their world-renowned acceleration could shift into second gear at around 120 mph, and begin a second stage of acceleration, nobody would have to think about comparing any electric motor to any ICE motor on 4 wheels. If Tesla won't do it, one of the overpriced exotics will surely try to develop a 2 speed gearbox for their electric supercar.
dv
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Vulture posted:
A two gear electric motor transmission would be AMAZING. A Tesla P100D will annihilate any supercar off the starting line, but given enough distance down a track, the supercar will win the race as a Tesla will no longer be able to accelerate at top speeds while the other driver will be shifting into top gear and blowing by. If electrics like the Teslas with their world-renowned acceleration could shift into second gear at around 120 mph, and begin a second stage of acceleration, nobody would have to think about comparing any electric motor to any ICE motor on 4 wheels. If Tesla won't do it, one of the overpriced exotics will surely try to develop a 2 speed gearbox for their electric supercar.


There are ways around that too, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_Regera
sean Royal Wombat
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Vulture posted:
A two gear electric motor transmission would be AMAZING.... If Tesla won't do it, one of the overpriced exotics will surely try to develop a 2 speed gearbox for their electric supercar.


The original Tesla Roadster (the Lotus based one) was intended to have a 2 speed manual transmission, but they couldn’t get it to work reliably, and ended up going with a single speed reduction gear.
Vulture 420
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dv posted:
Vulture posted:
A two gear electric motor transmission would be AMAZING. A Tesla P100D will annihilate any supercar off the starting line, but given enough distance down a track, the supercar will win the race as a Tesla will no longer be able to accelerate at top speeds while the other driver will be shifting into top gear and blowing by. If electrics like the Teslas with their world-renowned acceleration could shift into second gear at around 120 mph, and begin a second stage of acceleration, nobody would have to think about comparing any electric motor to any ICE motor on 4 wheels. If Tesla won't do it, one of the overpriced exotics will surely try to develop a 2 speed gearbox for their electric supercar.


There are ways around that too, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_Regera

That article is about a hybrid race car, it still requires gasoline to power the ICE.

sean posted:
Vulture posted:
A two gear electric motor transmission would be AMAZING.... If Tesla won't do it, one of the overpriced exotics will surely try to develop a 2 speed gearbox for their electric supercar.


The original Tesla Roadster (the Lotus based one) was intended to have a 2 speed manual transmission, but they couldn’t get it to work reliably, and ended up going with a single speed reduction gear.

Oh, so maybe Tesla will eventually do it first and remain untouchable in speed and acceleration.
ukimalefu dysfunctional
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Supercars are stupid

When are you going to reach the top speed in it? are you going to pay to go to a racing track every weekend? because you're an expert racing driver? or will you crash your million dollars car in some back road?

No, you will drive it slow, to be seen in it and let people know that you have a lot of money.

Not that I'll ever be filthy rich, but the craziest thing I'd get would be a Porsche 911 or an Aston-Martin. And I'd be very happy with the new Tesla roadster and wouldn't care who has a highest top speed than me.

Now get off my lawn and go make sure your bugatti poster isn't falling off your bedroom wall.
Vulture 420
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That's why Teslas are such groundbreaking vehicles, they are supercars and they have made ICE vehicles obsolete to all owners of Teslas who never want to drive their other cars anymore. They are the ultimate sleeper.
TOS
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Vulture posted:
Oh, so maybe Tesla will eventually do it first and remain untouchable in speed and acceleration.


i'd say the market for that is so miniscule that it doesn't justify the cost

at the moment they're aiming for mass market
Vulture 420
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TOS posted:
Vulture posted:
Oh, so maybe Tesla will eventually do it first and remain untouchable in speed and acceleration.


i'd say the market for that is so miniscule that it doesn't justify the cost

at the moment they're aiming for mass market

The market for what? It's just going to be built into the functionality of the car. The mass market will have it as default. The mass market didn't need Ludicrous Mode, but they got it anyway.
dv
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Vulture posted:
TOS posted:
Vulture posted:
Oh, so maybe Tesla will eventually do it first and remain untouchable in speed and acceleration.


i'd say the market for that is so miniscule that it doesn't justify the cost

at the moment they're aiming for mass market

The market for what? It's just going to be built into the functionality of the car. The mass market will have it as default. The mass market didn't need Ludicrous Mode, but they got it anyway.


It cost Tesla basically no money to make Ludicrous Mode a thing, and they can charge extra for it. Designing a 2-speed would actually cost them significant R&D money.
Pariah Know Your Enemy
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TOS posted:
Vulture posted:
Oh, so maybe Tesla will eventually do it first and remain untouchable in speed and acceleration.


i'd say the market for that is so miniscule that it doesn't justify the cost

at the moment they're aiming for mass market

That is true but it is also a great marketing gimmick to build a crazy fast flagship for the attention and sport cred.
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Electric cars are the future

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