i doubt people will scrap their cars because the infotainment systems are old

it's rare to keep a car past 10 years anyway, and that occupies the low end of the used market

TOS posted:

i doubt people will scrap their cars because the infotainment systems are old

it's rare to keep a car past 10 years anyway, and that occupies the low end of the used market

This. Most people don't use most of the crap on those things anyway. However, when they break, they are likely to disable so much that people will be forced to trade them in or face a massive repair bill for an old computer.

maurvir posted:

TOS posted:

i doubt people will scrap their cars because the infotainment systems are old

it's rare to keep a car past 10 years anyway, and that occupies the low end of the used market

This. Most people don't use most of the crap on those things anyway. However, when they break, they are likely to disable so much that people will be forced to trade them in or face a massive repair bill for an old computer.

i am willing to bet there will be a "refurbished" market for electric vehicles ... the manufacturer swaps the battery and inspects the rest, selling it for not-quite-new prices the way computer companies do

TOS posted:

i doubt people will scrap their cars because the infotainment systems are old

Not old, just broken: but they'll have to, since they won't be able to control basic functions like heating or cooling without a working infotainment system.

Quote:

it's rare to keep a car past 10 years anyway, and that occupies the low end of the used market

For an individual owner, yes, but the average car cycles through three or four owners over its useful lifespan. It's not about the individual buyer, it's about the entirety of the private vehicle fleet.

This is how car companies basically eliminate the lowest third or so of the used market, completely. The overall fleet size will shrink, and some people will be unable to afford a vehicle, but fiddlesticks them because everybody who can afford a newer vehicle will be forced to be owner #2 instead of owner #3, forcing more and more owner #2s into the owner #1 camp. Even if annual new car sales only go up 10% that's more than enough shareholder value to justify everything.

The utopian arguments about autonomous ride-share is just part of the plan. Taking an Uber is not cheaper than owning an old beater, and the drivers pay is actually a relatively small chunk of the overall expense, but car sharing services will end up being the only option for a lot of people who are suddenly priced out of the used car market.

TOS posted:

maurvir posted:

TOS posted:

i doubt people will scrap their cars because the infotainment systems are old

it's rare to keep a car past 10 years anyway, and that occupies the low end of the used market

This. Most people don't use most of the crap on those things anyway. However, when they break, they are likely to disable so much that people will be forced to trade them in or face a massive repair bill for an old computer.

i am willing to bet there will be a "refurbished" market for electric vehicles ... the manufacturer swaps the battery and inspects the rest, selling it for not-quite-new prices the way computer companies do

I'm talking about the infotainment computers on all cars. When I bought our Buick, I was secretly pleased that the head unit was the alternate style that didn't have a massive computer screen to control the whole car. Instead, it has discrete controls and readouts for the various systems.

That strategy might have a halo effect where if older Fords bevone junkers quickly while Toyota keep on purring along people might choose new Toyotas even if either brand will last the whole tune they use it.

And if you're a kid that had a old but gold Toyota when he becones a adult with a good job he might consider Toyota again or even Lexus because of familliarity and fond memories.

Betonhaus posted:

That strategy might have a halo effect where if older Fords bevone junkers quickly while Toyota keep on purring along people might choose new Toyotas even if either brand will last the whole tune they use it.

And if you're a kid that had a old but gold Toyota when he becones a adult with a good job he might consider Toyota again or even Lexus because of familliarity and fond memories.

I wouldn't disagree, but Toyota is putting even more gee-whiz electronic gadgets in their cars than most companies because all the extra safety features like lanekeeping and park assist help them sell new cars.

I'd say it's a race to the bottom, except that all these hyper-computerized disposable cars will probably save some lives.

ukimalefu posted:

By the way, the electric Harley-Davidson comes out this year

Harley is a company that will not survive the EV revolution.

dv posted:

Betonhaus posted:

Ford is making an electric truck. I suspect It will have the horsepower but not the range

Again, the range thing is an easily refutable concern.

Unless your car lives on the street and you have nowhere to plug it in, which is a thing.

There are only 3 supercharge stations near him. Those are free for 6 months and take him an hour and a half to charge. The regular charge stations take 8 hours. No thanks.

Pariah posted:

ukimalefu posted:

By the way, the electric Harley-Davidson comes out this year

[img]https%20/www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/global/future-vehicles/livewire/hero-livewire.jpg[/img]

Harley is a company that will not survive the EV revolution.

They'll do fine if they include a powerful sound system.

justine posted:

dv posted:

Betonhaus posted:

Ford is making an electric truck. I suspect It will have the horsepower but not the range

Again, the range thing is an easily refutable concern.

Unless your car lives on the street and you have nowhere to plug it in, which is a thing.

There are only 3 supercharge stations near him. Those are free for 6 months and take him an hour and a half to charge. The regular charge stations take 8 hours. No thanks.

The idea is you plug it in at your house overnight, every night. Almost nobody drives more than 100 miles a day.

Assuming you have a garage, obviously.

Using the fast chargers is actually bad for the batteries.

Right now most EVs are something of a luxury, and so they get the luxury appointments.

I see a future where the base model evs will look a lot like any base model car. No infotainment, no built in nav system, no digital controls. Because that brings down the price drastically. Most of the earliest cars built like that will probably be for car share services, to keep maintenance dow, and the models will drift into mainstream acceptance when a mere morta can buy one without going into ludicrous amounts of debt.

justine posted:

dv posted:

Betonhaus posted:

Ford is making an electric truck. I suspect It will have the horsepower but not the range

Again, the range thing is an easily refutable concern.

Unless your car lives on the street and you have nowhere to plug it in, which is a thing.

There are only 3 supercharge stations near him. Those are free for 6 months and take him an hour and a half to charge. The regular charge stations take 8 hours. No thanks.

That's now, I'm sure it'll get better.

You don't even have to think about getting an electric car now. In a few years, you may consider it, or not. Or you may never get one.

But, if you wanted one and had the money, and you have a garage, I believe they have a charger you can install at home, so you can charge overnight. And don't forget Tesla also wants to sell you solar panels and big batteries for your home, so you charge one of those batteries during the day with the sun, and then use it to charge your car at night. Free power! (after the big initial investment )

Pariah posted:

ukimalefu posted:

By the way, the electric Harley-Davidson comes out this year

Harley is a company that will not survive the EV revolution.

they will not survive the passing of the baby boomers, regardless of power supply

how about electric scooters?

this is a johammer, and it's got a range of around 2ookm (which is way more than enough for scooting around downtown)

I like the name.

TOS posted:

how about electric scooters?

this is a johammer, and it's got a range of around 2ookm (which is way more than enough for scooting around downtown)

A perfect example of what is so often wrong with the design of alt vehicles. That thing is ugly as fiddlesticks.

Pariah posted:

A perfect example of what is so often wrong with the design of alt vehicles. That thing is ugly as fiddlesticks.

EVs may be the future, but Tesla seems like it's not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxSQuGeoug8

Pariah posted:

TOS posted:

how about electric scooters?

this is a johammer, and it's got a range of around 2ookm (which is way more than enough for scooting around downtown)

A perfect example of what is so often wrong with the design of alt vehicles. That thing is ugly as fiddlesticks.

I like it, it's futuristic, in a geeky sci fi kind of way

Ford is making an electric F-150 pickup truck.

Quote:

The timing is still up in the air, but Ford executives said their engineers have been working on a more efficient F-150 that will come with more towing and off-road power than traditional gasoline and diesel trucks can offer today.

Ground yourselves, electrics are coming.

I'd love an electric Ranger.

Probably have to settle for a used ICE.

user posted:

I'd love an electric Ranger.

Probably have to settle for a used ICE.

Agreed on both counts.

Invest in solar panels. I mean get shares in a solar panel company. Or wind generators. And battery companies.

Ducati CEO confirms ‘The future is electric’, says electric Ducati is coming

right after I settle my pot stocks

makes sense, electric motors are dripping with torque

Aston Martin unveils latest all-electric Rapide E prototype with 800v powertrain

Quote:

Aston Martin aims to bring its first all-electric vehicle, the Rapide E, to market by the end of the year and it has now unveiled the latest validation prototype, which is equipped with a new 800-volt powertrain.

Quote:

Back in September 2018, the automaker released some projected performance specs, including a “top speed of 155mph, a sub-4.0sec 0-60mph time and a 50-70mph time of just 1.5sec.”

The company claims that the battery pack is going to enable a range of “over 200 miles under the Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP).”

They say the 800v battery system will be able to accept a charge rate of “100kW or higher.”

Aston Martin hasn’t confirmed a price yet, but it is expected to be high since they have so far only confirmed a limited production run of 155 units of the Rapide E with the “first customer deliveries scheduled for Q4 2019.”

Tesla releases their patents

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-pate ... belong-you

Quote:

Yesterday, there was a wall of Tesla patents in the lobby of our Palo Alto headquarters. That is no longer the case. They have been removed, in the spirit of the open source movement, for the advancement of electric vehicle technology.

Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport. If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal. Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

i thought they did that years ago

TOS posted:

i thought they did that years ago

Tesla blog post:

June 12, 2014

I didn't see that.

ukifail.

But originally I found the "news" here

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/elon-mu ... th-1986450

That's dated today.

I wanted to find a more believable source.

no biggie, i just had a vague recollection of muskie talking about it awhile back

that was before the sec investigations, of course

I pull into my local Carls Jr today, there were three Teslas currently charging. After I got my food and got ready to leave, here came two more.

There are six chargers at the location.

my neighbourhood is lousy with them

it makes pick-up and drop-off at the school much less cough-inducing

met a red one on a road in my city - first one I've seen

They are much less common in small town America.

juice posted:

They are much less common in small town America.

If I were to drive to the closest Walmart I'd see more outhouses than electric cars.

Oh? Has Walmart upgraded its inventory?

juice posted:

They are much less common in small town America.

The only reason I can see them there is because the location is right off of I-40.

Canadian oil company is smart

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pe ... t-to-coast

Quote:

Petro-Canada says it will begin to build fast charging stations for electric vehicles from Nova Scotia to British Columbia this spring.

It will install more than 50 of the stations along the Trans Canada Highway that will offer the highest levels of charging, called fast or level 3, which channel up to 200 kilowatts per hour (kWh).

That is enough to charge an EV battery to nearly 80 per cent capacity in less than 30 minutes.

I wonder if a battery exchange would be a better business model. Nearly instant "refueling" and less wear on the batteries by using the fast chargers.