Hiroshima - an article from 1946

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maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1946/ ... l_facebook

Apparently they took it out of the archive and made it available for free.
user Stupid cockwomble
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Didn't this end up being a book? I recognize some of those names and events.
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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user Stupid cockwomble
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Just read it a couple of years ago. My copy had a mushroom cloud on the cover.

So this has already been released.
I believe I've told this tale before but my search-fu on Macstack is lacking (or maybe I posted it at the MAF forums?).

Anyway, I do have a direct link to THAT bombing of Hiroshima:

At the very end of WWII my father was a 14-year-old on an island in Japan's Inland Sea. He and several other students had been called for duty into the homeland guard as part of the last-ditch defense of Japan, so that night they got a seeing-off party from the home town.

Despite the late night, the next morning my father woke up early as usual and was chopping some firewood for my grandparents before he would take the boat and train that eventually would get him to his mustering point in Hiroshima when the sky lit up brightly.

The boat to the mainland did not come that day.
DukeofNuke FREE RADICAL
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I believe it has inextricably joined our countries in a kind of hopeful alliance that few others share.
As Japan stands up to China over sea and island territorial claims, it's not the US that is standing with Japan (these issues are a lot bigger news over here). It's Vietnam, Taiwan, Indonesia, and the Philippines.
maurvir Steamed meat popsicle
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MacAddict4Life posted:
As Japan stands up to China over sea and island territorial claims, it's not the US that is standing with Japan (these issues are a lot bigger news over here). It's Vietnam, Taiwan, Indonesia, and the Philippines.


They have more to lose by being so close, and perhaps more importantly, they haven't jumped into bed with the Chinese economically.
iDaemon infinitely loopy
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DEyncourt posted:
I believe I've told this tale before but my search-fu on Macstack is lacking (or maybe I posted it at the MAF forums?).

Anyway, I do have a direct link to THAT bombing of Hiroshima:

At the very end of WWII my father was a 14-year-old on an island in Japan's Inland Sea. He and several other students had been called for duty into the homeland guard as part of the last-ditch defense of Japan, so that night they got a seeing-off party from the home town.

Despite the late night, the next morning my father woke up early as usual and was chopping some firewood for my grandparents before he would take the boat and train that eventually would get him to his mustering point in Hiroshima when the sky lit up brightly.

The boat to the mainland did not come that day.


Wow.

Anyway, I read the Hersey book as a ten-year-old. I think my father suggested it. He was familiar with "shock and awe" flying over occupied Germany, seeing whole cities laid waste. I think he wanted my brain imprinted. Kinda worked.
DEyncourt posted:
I believe I've told this tale before but my search-fu on Macstack is lacking (or maybe I posted it at the MAF forums?).

Anyway, I do have a direct link to THAT bombing of Hiroshima:

At the very end of WWII my father was a 14-year-old on an island in Japan's Inland Sea. He and several other students had been called for duty into the homeland guard as part of the last-ditch defense of Japan, so that night they got a seeing-off party from the home town.

Despite the late night, the next morning my father woke up early as usual and was chopping some firewood for my grandparents before he would take the boat and train that eventually would get him to his mustering point in Hiroshima when the sky lit up brightly.

The boat to the mainland did not come that day.

:squint: Circumstances force me to ask: is this tale real?

To be sure: I did hear this from my father about 30 years--literally half MY lifetime--ago, BUT it was being told to my sister's boyfriend at that time. He and my father were drinking beers (I never developed the taste) so maybe this was a tale to tell only over beers.

On the other hand: c'mon, dad! It is literally an existential tale around a history-changing event. Just a bit different....

So I asked my brother. He had heard portions heard and there but not all put together.

Through him I asked my mom. She hadn't heard it before. To be sure she was only 10 at that time. She knew of my father's family but did not know my father well being 4.5 years his junior.

My sister is traveling so I haven't had a chance to ask her, especially if she heard it later from her boyfriend back then. She wasn't at that beer-splitting session.
TOS
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people saw it as far away as shanghai, his story is certainly possible ... even if the part about having to be in hiroshima that day is a tall tale (my thought is that boats were, i suspect, rarely used at that point due to the american blockade), he could easily have seen the thing go off
Hiroshima is on the southern coast of Honshu--Japan's largest island--across the Inland Sea from Shikoku. Along with Kyoto and Osaka, those cities were almost certainly beyond the great capabilities of even the US Army Air Corps of just being mined to create a blockade, being many miles inland across heavily populated territory.

In any case, my parents' island of origin in the Inland Sea is a small one, perhaps as many as a thousand people at the very most if that and most of them farmers or fishermen. My father's boat from the mainland (Honshu) was probably a rowboat with maybe a motor for those rich enough to afford that luxury.

Oh, and their island is far enough that he could not have seen even the mushroom cloud.

I think around 2005 their island along with others were connected to Honshu AND Shikoku by a series of bridges.
TOS
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subs and aircraft were ranging freely, sinking everything in sight, including coastal shipping

the flash was intense and the cloud rose to 60,000 feet or so

not feeling like arguing, just sayin'
And yet, here you are.

What aircraft? You mean those American pilots engaged with gradual re-taking of those islands claimed by the Japanese Imperial forces? Did they just decide to take a jaunt of hundreds to thousands of miles across water just to take potshots at "everything" on the Japanese mainland?

Also recall that one of the reasons why Hiroshima was selected as a target was that it was relatively untouched by bombing in part to help the contrast of the aftermath. Apparently the US Army Air Corps had such an embarrassment of Japanese targets that it considered Hiroshima a low priority target.

Subs? By one definition Japan's Inland Sea is about 9000 miles in area which places it between Lakes Ontario and Erie in extent. In contrast to those lakes the Inland Sea is relatively shallow (though not so much that this would be a problem for subs) and dotted with over 3000 mostly small islands (which would be a problem for subs). Most likely the Imperial Navy did mine the entrances of the Inland Sea so US subs concentrated on easier ports like Tokyo-Yokohama and Nagasaki.

The resulting mushroom cloud? Like anyone aside from people who witnessed the Trinity test would have understood what had happened. At the distance my parents' island is from the bombing site, at best my father might have seen an unusual thunderhead emerging from beyond the NW horizon, if that, and he certainly would have no reason to associate that cloud with the earlier flash.

Just sayin'.
Before you argue that the fireball of Little Boy should have been noticeable, watch this which is at least a partial collection of footage taken aboard the Enola Gay. Note around the minute mark that while the mushroom cloud had not reached its highest point (being roughly level with the Enola Gay) that the fireball was no longer evident.
In any case, my questions regarding my father's story are:

1) was that timing right? Sure, it could have happened exactly as he told my sister's boyfriend. Just a tiny change and I and most of my immediate family would not be here. Conceivably it happened to another older boy but he put himself into THAT story?

2) he decided to share it with my sister's boyfriend? I must admit that I did not know my dad as well as I might have which wasn't helped that a few short years later cancer took him away, but c'mon! My sister's boyfriend? They never even got engaged before they broke up.

That he might have been a witness to the Little Boy flash I have no doubts.

While my dad's parents along with his older brother died in different circumstances before I was born, I know for certain he would have been dedicated to any job much less a duty to his parents. He had a much better work ethic than me.
There's a story of a man who was in Hiroshima for the blast, survived, got on a train (some still ran) to Nagasaki just in time for the destruction of that city. He survived the war and lived a long life.
That COULD be possible. After all, the train tracks themselves would be largely unaffected by the relatively brief blast, so aside from some debris that would have to be cleared and the loss of trains and personnel within the blast zone at Hiroshima, the train system could have been running within days.
dv
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DEyncourt posted:
That COULD be possible. After all, the train tracks themselves would be largely unaffected by the relatively brief blast, so aside from some debris that would have to be cleared and the loss of trains and personnel within the blast zone at Hiroshima, the train system could have been running within days.


Less skepticism, more pub quiz trivia nights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yamaguchi
I believe that somewhere on MacStack (or MAF?) there was mention of him perhaps around 2010 when he died.
obvs precoupado
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MAF went away more than ten years ago. This site has been this site for about 11 years.
TOS
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DEyncourt posted:
And yet, here you are.

What aircraft? You mean those American pilots engaged with gradual re-taking of those islands claimed by the Japanese Imperial forces? Did they just decide to take a jaunt of hundreds to thousands of miles across water just to take potshots at "everything" on the Japanese mainland?

Also recall that one of the reasons why Hiroshima was selected as a target was that it was relatively untouched by bombing in part to help the contrast of the aftermath. Apparently the US Army Air Corps had such an embarrassment of Japanese targets that it considered Hiroshima a low priority target.

Subs? By one definition Japan's Inland Sea is about 9000 miles in area which places it between Lakes Ontario and Erie in extent. In contrast to those lakes the Inland Sea is relatively shallow (though not so much that this would be a problem for subs) and dotted with over 3000 mostly small islands (which would be a problem for subs). Most likely the Imperial Navy did mine the entrances of the Inland Sea so US subs concentrated on easier ports like Tokyo-Yokohama and Nagasaki.

The resulting mushroom cloud? Like anyone aside from people who witnessed the Trinity test would have understood what had happened. At the distance my parents' island is from the bombing site, at best my father might have seen an unusual thunderhead emerging from beyond the NW horizon, if that, and he certainly would have no reason to associate that cloud with the earlier flash.

Just sayin'.


holy human waste, calm your tits

yeesh
Instead of making such catty responses you could publicly admit error. It is a humbling experience that is good for the soul, and doing it just once will make it easier next time.

I try to do this myself though I am not perfect in this regard.

It is also a self-acknowledgment of one's imperfections. While we all attempt to attain perfect knowledge, an admission of error should also be a learning experience towards that nirvana of perfection. None of us will ever attain that, but the journey is MUCH more important than attaining such impossible goals.
TOS
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tell ya what, go here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... _June_1945

to a text search for "inland sea" and report back on how many hits you get

then keep in mind that was just for one month

go ahead, i'll wait
By my count for the entire month of June 1945 there were 31 actions by American forces against Japanese ships--both military and commercial--located in the Inland Sea which resulted in those ships being sufficiently damaged to be unusable if not outright sunk, one being a ship destroyed during construction in a shipyard by a bomber, about half by surface ships and the rest by submarines.

But given that number of enemy actions, that hardly accords with your claim:
TOS posted:
people saw it as far away as shanghai, his story is certainly possible ... even if the part about having to be in hiroshima that day is a tall tale (my thought is that boats were, i suspect, rarely used at that point due to the american blockade), he could easily have seen the thing go off

[bold added]

An awfully busy month for the Americans within the Inland Sea if the Japanese were so intimidated by the "american blockade" that "boats were...rarely used."

Let acknowledge that MY statement about the size of the Inland Sea ALSO works against my arguments. If that body of water was so large that it couldn't possibly be blanketed by American forces to sink everything, then likewise it was beyond the capabilities of the Japanese forces to protect everything.

That was my error. There are probably more which got sturner laughing at me. My apologies for any and all.

Your turn?
TOS
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so what am i apologizing for again? having an opinion that offends you for some unfathomable reason?

yeah, sorry for that
I cannot help a man who refuses to see, so :shrug:
TOS
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fun fact: ferry services on canada's east coast were severely disrupted during the battle of the atlantic ... one ferry was even lost with heavy loss of life
I was able to ask my sister directly about this, and she had heard a version from my dad (she also told me that it was partly my fault for not talking that much with him, and I had to admit that). This was separate from hearing about it from her boyfriend at that time which she did not mention.

She did say my dad said that for a while the sky turned a weird violet shade which I had never heard of before from any A-bomb witnesses (or maybe some?). Perhaps something unique for Hiroshima?

So not absolute proof but short of tracking down old paper records in Japan I am satisfied about my dad's tale being authentic.
Metacell Chocolate Brahma
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Fun facts: My mamma was a boobie-dancer who got to tour Japan, mainly suburban Nagoya, in 1976-77. She met Hibakusha (survivors of the atomic explosion) with skin molted from their bodies. She also met Koreans whom she tried to take for a drink in local bars, but found out she couldn't because (in her words "Wait, you mean you're the fine, upstanding people here?" "Yes we are the fine, upstanding people...hahaha"). She also sent me nearly every first-run classic Ultraman monster action figurine decades before they were available in the US, including ones from the banned episode of Ultraseven which was deemed offensive to Hibakusha as it depicted them as zombie-vampires. She also sent me children's books and dictionaries. Because of this (I was 6/7) and my proximity to the Japanese Gardens in SF, I am now a descendant of Irish Catholics who is a Bhuddist/Shakta/Shamana semifluent in Japanese and studying Sanskrit Hindu mythology. And I laugh while the world destroys itself. Fun facts.
TOS
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Metacell posted:
Fun facts: My mamma was a boobie-dancer who got to tour Japan, mainly suburban Nagoya, in 1976-77. She met Hibakusha (survivors of the atomic explosion) with skin molted from their bodies. She also met Koreans whom she tried to take for a drink in local bars, but found out she couldn't because (in her words "Wait, you mean you're the fine, upstanding people here?" "Yes we are the fine, upstanding people...hahaha"). She also sent me nearly every first-run classic Ultraman monster action figurine decades before they were available in the US, including ones from the banned episode of Ultraseven which was deemed offensive to Hibakusha as it depicted them as zombie-vampires. She also sent me children's books and dictionaries. Because of this (I was 6/7) and my proximity to the Japanese Gardens in SF, I am now a descendant of Irish Catholics who is a Bhuddist/Shakta/Shamana semifluent in Japanese and studying Sanskrit Hindu mythology. And I laugh while the world destroys itself. Fun facts.


there indeed is a whole bucket of fun in that post ... it would make a hell of a screenplay
iDaemon infinitely loopy
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Screenplay? Haiku.
iDaemon posted:
Screenplay? Haiku.

Senryu.
iDaemon posted:
Screenplay? Haiku.

Space is limited
In a haiku, so it's hard
To finish what you
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Hiroshima - an article from 1946