Metacell posted:

Star Trek is supposed to appeal to nerds: It's supposed to have a higher message of hope that appeals to our inner spirit of justice. It's not supposed to be a suspenseful action packed adventure populated by everyman approved demigods just like every other superhero flick.

alternate timeline, new rules

Cool, you win the "Let's Make a Buck Off the Shmucks" timeline. That's the one where Donald Trump is president.

Metacell posted:

Cool, you win the "Let's Make a Buck Off the Shmucks" timeline. That's the one where Donald Trump is president.

SO it's all Spock's fault!?

The things is, you don't have to like "new trek", but those are the movies you're gonna get.

Unless they make a show where they gave Wesley Crusher his own ship, and Data looks old because "he wants to be more human".

The new tv show happens in the original timeline, 10 years before TOS. Let's hope it's good.

I'd like a Trek TV show in the original timeline, but far into the future and... you may disagree, dark and gritty and with lots of action.

OR, you're gonna disagree with this, a TV show in the new time line. But that could be a different ship and crew. And I'd like to be some kind of Trek cinematic universe, with the show referencing the movies, like Marvel does.

Now, I wonder when new trek is going to remake the trouble with tribbles.

by the way, have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZbKnbWhkzY

it features Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, and maybe others you may recognize, but "it's not star trek", because CBS and Paramount don't want it to be.

The only reason Star Trek kept it's bearings at all was that Rodenberry was still running the show. It's surprising it didn't go to human waste earlier after he died.

ukimalefu posted:

by the way, have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZbKnbWhkzY

it features Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, and maybe others you may recognize, but "it's not star trek", because CBS and Paramount don't want it to be.

Star Wars should sue 'em over that bar scene

Also, there is an actor listed in the credits, whose actual first name is "Darth".

Party on.

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

"Intellectual property" law is so ridiculous. Voyager ended over 15 years ago. DS9 ended almost 20 years ago. TNG ended almost 25 years ago. The original series ended almost 50 years ago. There's no good reason for movie studios, the public, or whoever not to be able to use those characters or the Star Trek universe and backstory as a setting for their own stories.

TOS posted:

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

That sounds great coming from your username and avatar, Mr Harbinger of Doom. /sarcasm



This new series will have spaceships and lasers, that means there's a very good chance I will like it.

ukimalefu posted:

TOS posted:

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

That sounds great coming from your username and avatar, Mr Harbinger of Doom. /sarcasm



This new series will have spaceships and lasers, that means there's a very good chance I will like it.

i'm simply trying to destroy your hope ... why must you resist?

TOS posted:

ukimalefu posted:

TOS posted:

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

That sounds great coming from your username and avatar, Mr Harbinger of Doom. /sarcasm



This new series will have spaceships and lasers, that means there's a very good chance I will like it.

i'm simply trying to destroy your hope ... why must you resist?

TOS posted:

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

If that were true, then there would be no Enterprise, Spock, Kirk, etc. The uniforms use the same colours and symbols. New Trek is pretty much just an updated clone of Old Trek, with the alternate timeline allowing them to use the same characters with shiny new actors. Hell, Nimoy appeared as Spock. I am calling BS on that supposition.

TOS posted:

ukimalefu posted:

TOS posted:

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

That sounds great coming from your username and avatar, Mr Harbinger of Doom. /sarcasm



This new series will have spaceships and lasers, that means there's a very good chance I will like it.

i'm simply trying to destroy your hope ... why must you resist?

hope? what is that?

TOS posted:

so a friend of mine explained the whole reboot thing to me ... that basically corporate nonsense resulted in a split in the ownership of star trek

the "reboots" happened because that studio owns the brand but not any of the content, so they can be star trek but aren't allowed to resemble the original series or movies -- hence the splitting off of a whole new timeline, different uniforms, colour palette, and so on

the new series is a part of that, so they're actually not allowed to be a part of the original universe, and yet they need to distance themselves from the reboot series (which has become a financial dud -- the most recent release lost maybe $50 mil), which leaves them in a serious bind

it's almost impossible for them to please trek fans because they can't be too much like the original franchise, yet they can't take the jj abrams route because that has run out of steam

rumour has it test screenings have been a disaster, leading cbs to pretty much give up on the series

nicholas meyer, the driving force behind wrath of khan, is working on a "top secret" trek project, which many think will be a tv anthology (different stories occurring at different points along the trek timeline), possibly serving as a subsequent season to discovery

alas discovery sounds like a mess

Beyond made 158 million at the US box office, on a 185 million budget, according to IMDB. It seems certain that international box office receipts would have pushed that well into the black.

After marketing costs, it's considered to have lost c. $50 million.

Incidentally, Star Trek: The Motion Picture is still the highest grossing of the movies, adjusting for inflation (also the most expensive US film made up to that point).

As best as I can tell it made $184 million internationally, which still more than covers 50 million.

Hollywood math. If any of the actors or directors were getting a % of the gate as part of their contract, the movie will probably lose money, unless it loses so much money that it makes money.

Some of them lose so much money, they get sequels.

Hey, look, I'm just reporting what Wikipedia says. Why don't you edit it?

MacAddict4Life posted:

As best as I can tell it made $184 million internationally, which still more than covers 50 million.

those numbers do not show a full picture of production costs ... not even close

even if the numbers you found are accurate, it's still a bad investment to spend close to $200 million to make $50 million

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

TOS posted:

MacAddict4Life posted:

As best as I can tell it made $184 million internationally, which still more than covers 50 million.

those numbers do not show a full picture of production costs ... not even close

even if the numbers you found are accurate, it's still a bad investment to spend close to $200 million to make $50 million

Though, if the numbers I'm finding are accurate, that indicates a worldwide profit of $130 million, not $50 million.

And frankly I have no idea if they are.

It looks like it pulled in 360 million worldwide on a 185 million budget. (Using the IMDB box office figures) I think those numbers are good enough that no onle lost money on it. But it didn't pull in anywhere as much business as Into Darkness or Trek 2009.

Star Trek (1)4 is in production for a 2019 release date, so I would guess that it was enough to keep the series going.

I like the JJverse. I accept it for what it is, an action oriented take on the Trek universe. If you go into it expecting just that, I don't think that it is all that disappointing.

ukimalefu posted:

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

Khan the character is not interesting. Ricardo Montalbán was interesting.

Metacell posted:

ukimalefu posted:

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

Khan the character is not interesting. Ricardo Montalbán was interesting.

The whole concept of genetically enhanced humans and the Eugenics Wars is interesting, IMO. The thing is that originally, that happened in the 1990s. Maybe they'll change it to the 2090s.

ukimalefu posted:

Metacell posted:

ukimalefu posted:

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

Khan the character is not interesting. Ricardo Montalbán was interesting.

The whole concept of genetically enhanced humans and the Eugenics Wars is interesting, IMO. The thing is that originally, that happened in the 1990s. Maybe they'll change it to the 2090s.

The Trek Official Timeline split off from ours in the '80s. It's a different universe, not a possible future.

dv posted:

ukimalefu posted:

Metacell posted:

ukimalefu posted:

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

Khan the character is not interesting. Ricardo Montalbán was interesting.

The whole concept of genetically enhanced humans and the Eugenics Wars is interesting, IMO. The thing is that originally, that happened in the 1990s. Maybe they'll change it to the 2090s.

The Trek Official Timeline split off from ours in the '80s. It's a different universe, not a possible future.

Shut up, I'm still hoping to see the Vulcans arrive in the 2060s.

ukimalefu posted:

Metacell posted:

ukimalefu posted:

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

Khan the character is not interesting. Ricardo Montalbán was interesting.

The whole concept of genetically enhanced humans and the Eugenics Wars is interesting, IMO. The thing is that originally, that happened in the 1990s. Maybe they'll change it to the 2090s.

Yeah, sure, for some. <raises hand to be included>

But Montalbán AS AN ACTOR made it a winner of a storyline.

DEyncourt posted:

ukimalefu posted:

Metacell posted:

ukimalefu posted:

In other news, there are rumors of a Khan miniseries that would happen between the original Khan episode in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan movie.

Just rumors.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-tre ... -the-works

Khan the character is not interesting. Ricardo Montalbán was interesting.

The whole concept of genetically enhanced humans and the Eugenics Wars is interesting, IMO. The thing is that originally, that happened in the 1990s. Maybe they'll change it to the 2090s.

Yeah, sure, for some. <raises hand to be included>

But Montalbán AS AN ACTOR made it a winner of a storyline.

Totally agree. I like Benedict Cumberbatch, but even with his considerable acting chops, he couldn't ooze evil and disdain as effectively as Montalban seemed to do effortlessly in both the TOS episode and WoK.

Ricardo Montalbán was an amazing actor through the years. He not only nailed Khan, but also Roarke (Fantasy Island) and he did a very solid bad guy in an episode of Columbo.

He also made people remember "Rich Corinthian Leather"

chikie posted:

He also made people remember "Rich Corinthian Leather"

Which never actually existed. It just sounded awesome when he said it, so it stuck.

neptune's daughter 1949 - esther williams ricardo montalban heart beats faster.jpg

So after watching the first episode of Discovery, I have to say I didn't think it was awful or great, but this marketing ploy seems like a great way for CBS to bankrupt itself.

Doubt it'll be worth an extra $6 a month to see it. I hate this trend of networks hosting their own streaming services. It'll just dilute the market.

user posted:

Doubt it'll be worth an extra $6 a month to see it. I hate this trend of networks hosting their own streaming services. It'll just dilute the market.

At the CBS.com site there are three options for the CBS All Access app:

1) free but commercial-filled. Presumably this will act like most such apps/programs that I have encountered and these commercials cannot be skipped over in any way. AND it appears that this free version MUST be re-downloaded every month because at the end of the free month you will have to select between the options below.

2) $5.99/month OR $59.99/year for "limited commercials". Also presumably like the above in that these commercials likewise cannot be skipped, but instead of a set of commercials per break there will be only one commercial per break perhaps for an episode or a series sponsor.

3) $9.99/month OR $99.99/year for commercial-free (of course dependent upon CBS' idea of whatever THAT means because they are likely to show promotions for other CBS programs since these are considered NOT "commercials" [most TV networks actually use this definition]).

I THINK that the app is initially the free version but can be upgraded at any time, though it isn't clear to me if the yearly plans may be available ONLY through the web site and not via the app.

Now this is fine IF you are a fan of a lot of CBS programs as "all" of them are included, including many popular re-runs which are no longer being produced such as the original Twilight Zone. On the other hand if you are like me and have basically winnowed down all CBS programming to Discovery (maybe) and "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" all these deals are rather less attractive.

Hmm, I had read somewhere on the CBS site (which I can no longer find) that Discovery's first season will be 15 episodes long (um, maybe 16 HOURS long with a two-hour season finale?) with the first block being shown at an episode per week from now through December, then the second block shown from January through March/April. Maybe what I should do is wait until late March 2017 to sign up with that free version of the app and binge-watch all of season 1 including commercials?

Except that I have found that I REALLY dislike binge-watching. Including unskippable commercials isn't likely to improve that opinion.

-----

I thought that that first episode was OK. There were some bothersome tweakinesses here and there like Lt. Commander Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) applying a Vulcan nerve pinch to her captain (both of whom are human though Burnham was raised from a young child on Vulcan by Spock's father Sarek)? I thought that was a RACIAL characteristic and not something that ANYONE could learn to do, otherwise shouldn't that training be galaxy-wide for ANY species who encountered the Vulcans? Even if the nerve pinch can be applied only on humans because we all know how INVASIVE they can be.

According to someone's notes at IMDB.com Discovery takes place in TOS universe and will have nothing to do with Star Trek movie universe. Something inside of me sighs just at the notion of multiple universes (yeah, recently there have been a lot of such sighs).

I have to admit that the idea of a Star Trek series in which a HOT war is starting between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, where the latter HAD been split into dozens if not hundreds of factions but had gotten inspiration from an uniting leader, just 'cause of the great potential for a lot of BOOM BOOM! as shown in the preview for the second episode.

I should point out something about those yearly plans that didn't quite make sense to me when I first read it. In the notation about the various plans, CBS pointed out that by signing up for a year "you get two months free" (or technically for 9 cents). I suppose that all FUTURE years will not have that discount so whether or not you sign up on the monthly plans or the yearly plans, so for the latter essentially you will save 2 month's fees only for that FIRST year.