Game of F'ing Thrones: the F'ing Show

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DEyncourt
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Post by DEyncourt »

user wrote:
DEyncourt wrote: So...we are three shows into the new season (reported to be the next-to-last).

Time to re-activate this thread?

I was thinking it was the last season.

Although they are moving awfully slow if they're going to have a big whitewalker battle this season.

On last New Year's Day my brother mentioned hearing something about THIS season being the last. Even back then it seemed to me to be rather not long enough UNLESS the powers-that-be extended this season to way more than 10 episodes.
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seven
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huskies aint direwolves idjits
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...so I'm supposed to find the Shadow King from inside a daiquiri?
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Post by DukeofNuke »

not apartment dogs, either
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Post by Robert »

I had a husky for 14 years. She was awesome.
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One of my housemates got one because that was her name. Put it in the fenced backyard and ignored it. I told her it was like having a kid - it was going nuts back there.
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...so I'm supposed to find the Shadow King from inside a daiquiri?
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Post by TOS »

like finding nemo and clownfish

people just basically suck
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Post by StaticAge »

Was that last episode awesome or what? Wow!
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DEyncourt
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Post by DEyncourt »

user wrote: One of my housemates got one because that was her name.
[snip]

Wait...is her name "Husky" or "Akita"? Or you mean her name is "Arya" (maybe instead with an 'i') or "Sansa" or something close?
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Huskey
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...so I'm supposed to find the Shadow King from inside a daiquiri?
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Post by DEyncourt »

user wrote: Huskey

Oh. Surname, I presume?
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Yes.

...

I really liked the sparring, but couldn't help wondering where that leather outfit came from.
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Post by StaticAge »

[spoiler]A girl had killed a castle full of Freys, access to all sorts of loot, gear, and coin.[/spoiler]
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Post by DEyncourt »

Remember that Maisie Williams is right-handed but she learned fencing and swordplay left-handed simply because that was in George R. R. Martin's description for Arya Stark.

I literally wept when that brief shot in last week's preview [spoiler]confirmed that it was Arya Stark's first view of Winterfell in a couple of years. The reunion of the sisters was very gratifying even as it took unexpected turns. I cannot wait until Arya explains to Sansa and Jon Snow how she took the NORTH'S vengeance upon House Frey (maybe proving herself by briefly impersonating Walder Frey for Sansa [since Jon had never seen Walder Frey]?). AND Arya will kill Littlefinger, won't she?[/spoiler]
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Post by Robert »

Thoughts off the cuff.

[spoiler]I don't think Arya will fully recount to Jon or Sansa the details or her skills or training. She'll limit the details; she traveled to Braavos after Brienne defeated the Hound, and learned some things. She disguised herself and poisoned the wine at the Frey's banquet, etc.

Danaerys' arc still remains one of the least interesting, to me. It's only interesting at this point because of her interaction with many other principal characters.

A lot of the more interesting characters are having to take a backseat this season, which is disappointing. At least there's less Sam and what's-her-face, which is good.

I'm least entertained by dragons which feel to me like a cheat, a deus ex machina, but not in the strict sense of the phrase; they're a weapon of mass destruction used without the threat or staying hand of mutually assured destruction.

History is filled with revolutionaries who whipped up a rebellion to overthrow power but could not contain the public fervor and transition from coup to governance. It'll be interesting to see if Danaerys can make that transition. She's so adamant that everybody "bend the knee" that it's hard to picture her letting the North be the North or wildlings be wildlings; are Dothraki going to stop being Dothraki after the fight is over?

I don't think Jaime is dead, but he'll be captured. Possessing the Kingslayer who killed her father will be a delicious moment for Danaerys. Tyrion, whose capacities and usefulness to Danaerys are already in doubt, will attempt to free him, as Jamie did for Tyrion seasons ago. He'll probably fail and get caught, because that's the Game of Thrones way. Danaerys will probably want to execute them both.[/spoiler]
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make the little man fly
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Post by DEyncourt »

[spoiler]Arya MUST get to explain how that she herself took out House Frey because EVERYTHING in Westeros is personal. While death by disease or accident or "accident" may get a "good--he's dead" response, that would not have the satisfaction of Arya forthrightly stating "I did that", BUT this would be a Stark family secret if only to preserve Arya as a secret weapon who WILL be used later.

I didn't like how that shallow river crossing albeit next to a small lake became what looked like an oceans-deep crevasse that allowed--I presume--Bronn to save Jaime from dragonfire.

If Bronn is recovered from the lake then he will be a dead man because everything Westerosi is personal.

Remember that Jaime has had some time to reconsider his blaming Tyrion for Joffrey's murder due to Lady Olenna's death-chair confession of poisoning Joffrey because she "wanted Cersei to know" (again because EWIP). This MIGHT allow the brothers to reconcile:
Tyrion: "I had nothing to do with Joffrey's murder."
Jaime: "I already know that because that uncouth individual Olenna told me herself."

I think that Daenerys--perhaps at Tyrion's suggestion--will allow the Kingslayer to return ALONE to King's Landing simply to emphasize the point that the Lannister army had been destroyed by just ONE dragon. Imagine the panic that would ensue, not just in King's Landing but among Cersei's remaining allies.[/spoiler]

Unrelated to story: how is it that Sophie Turner has become MORE attractive? She has always been very pretty throughout the series, but there have been changes specifically between GoT seasons 6 and 7 which has nothing to do with the storyline of Sansa Stark turning from ingenue princess-wanna-be to embattled survivor.
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Post by TOS »

DEyncourt wrote:Unrelated to story: how is it that Sophie Turner has become MORE attractive? She has always been very pretty throughout the series, but there have been changes specifically between GoT seasons 6 and 7 which has nothing to do with the storyline of Sansa Stark turning from ingenue princess-wanna-be to embattled survivor.


she's basically grown up now, all womanly and whatnot
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Post by Robert »

Dragon arrows with wildfire warhead. Make it so, Qyburn.
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Post by DEyncourt »

Robert B. wrote: Dragon arrows with wildfire warhead. Make it so, Qyburn.

Um...
1) Wildfire is NOT self-igniting. In fact it has the bizarre characteristic of REQUIRING direct contact with an open flame to be ignited after which it can react quickly enough that within an enclosed space that a large pool of wildfire can produce a large explosion (witness the Great Sept of Baelor).

2) On the other hand wildfire is so notoriously unstable that it must be handled with great care at all times. Because increasing age can badly affect its stability, its use as any sort of payload is VERY questionable. Likely Tyrion Lannnister understood this characteristic which was why he was able to use wildfire so effectively in the Battle of Blackwater Bay by launching an otherwise empty ship loaded with wildfire leaking out of it. Not only did Bronn's flaming arrow ignite the leaking wildfire (again showing the requirement of an open flame), but the fire eventually got to the ship which exploded taking out several of Stannis Baratheon's nearby ships. Just the g-force shock of firing an arrow with a wildfire warhead would most likely result in that warhead instantly exploding thus destroying the scorpion. Having one's own troops set alight would drive the number of volunteers in charge of the scorpion down to zero.
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Post by TOS »

watched the battle today, plus a making-of

pretty damn amazing
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Post by Robert »

DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote: Dragon arrows with wildfire warhead. Make it so, Qyburn.

Um...
1) Wildfire is NOT self-igniting. In fact it has the bizarre characteristic of REQUIRING direct contact with an open flame to be ignited after which it can react quickly enough that within an enclosed space that a large pool of wildfire can produce a large explosion (witness the Great Sept of Baelor).

2) On the other hand wildfire is so notoriously unstable that it must be handled with great care at all times. Because increasing age can badly affect its stability, its use as any sort of payload is VERY questionable. Likely Tyrion Lannnister understood this characteristic which was why he was able to use wildfire so effectively in the Battle of Blackwater Bay by launching an otherwise empty ship loaded with wildfire leaking out of it. Not only did Bronn's flaming arrow ignite the leaking wildfire (again showing the requirement of an open flame), but the fire eventually got to the ship which exploded taking out several of Stannis Baratheon's nearby ships. Just the g-force shock of firing an arrow with a wildfire warhead would most likely result in that warhead instantly exploding thus destroying the scorpion. Having one's own troops set alight would drive the number of volunteers in charge of the scorpion down to zero.


Why would g-force set off wildfire if you just said wildfire won't ignite without direct contact with flame? Either the g-force of the impact will ignite it or it won't, but you can't have it both ways.
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Post by DEyncourt »

Robert B. wrote:
DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote: Dragon arrows with wildfire warhead. Make it so, Qyburn.

Um...
1) Wildfire is NOT self-igniting. In fact it has the bizarre characteristic of REQUIRING direct contact with an open flame to be ignited after which it can react quickly enough that within an enclosed space that a large pool of wildfire can produce a large explosion (witness the Great Sept of Baelor).

2) On the other hand wildfire is so notoriously unstable that it must be handled with great care at all times. Because increasing age can badly affect its stability, its use as any sort of payload is VERY questionable. Likely Tyrion Lannnister understood this characteristic which was why he was able to use wildfire so effectively in the Battle of Blackwater Bay by launching an otherwise empty ship loaded with wildfire leaking out of it. Not only did Bronn's flaming arrow ignite the leaking wildfire (again showing the requirement of an open flame), but the fire eventually got to the ship which exploded taking out several of Stannis Baratheon's nearby ships. Just the g-force shock of firing an arrow with a wildfire warhead would most likely result in that warhead instantly exploding thus destroying the scorpion. Having one's own troops set alight would drive the number of volunteers in charge of the scorpion down to zero.


Why would g-force set off wildfire if you just said wildfire won't ignite without direct contact with flame? Either the g-force of the impact will ignite it or it won't, but you can't have it both ways.

Being unstable is NOT related to being flammable. In reality there are plenty of materials which are--sometimes necessarily due to chemistry--both, but this is George R. R. Martin's world so he can play with unreality (hence MY "bizarre").

When Tyrion first discovered the wildfire cache kept by the Alchemist's Guild of King's Landing, that chief Pyromancer had to explicitly warn Tyrion to be cautious just handling the container holding a sample of wildfire.

You cannot plan for impact when wildfire almost certainly will explode when being launched. Hell, a warhead loaded with wildfire would be unlikely to survive just being transported on a lightly rutted road.
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Post by Robert »

Is that what they taught you in fancy lad school? I will entrust the solving of the problem to Qyburn, aka The Oppenheimer of Westeros.
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Post by DEyncourt »

Robert B. wrote: Is that what they taught you in fancy lad school? I will entrust the solving of the problem to Qyburn, aka The Oppenheimer of Westeros.

:shrug: That "fancy lad school" is merely paying attention to the text (a bit less so the TV series if only because often it did NOT go to that level of detail).

If you want to argue with Martin about HIS world, you are welcome to do so.
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Post by chikie »

DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote:
DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote: Dragon arrows with wildfire warhead. Make it so, Qyburn.

Um...
1) Wildfire is NOT self-igniting. In fact it has the bizarre characteristic of REQUIRING direct contact with an open flame to be ignited after which it can react quickly enough that within an enclosed space that a large pool of wildfire can produce a large explosion (witness the Great Sept of Baelor).

2) On the other hand wildfire is so notoriously unstable that it must be handled with great care at all times. Because increasing age can badly affect its stability, its use as any sort of payload is VERY questionable. Likely Tyrion Lannnister understood this characteristic which was why he was able to use wildfire so effectively in the Battle of Blackwater Bay by launching an otherwise empty ship loaded with wildfire leaking out of it. Not only did Bronn's flaming arrow ignite the leaking wildfire (again showing the requirement of an open flame), but the fire eventually got to the ship which exploded taking out several of Stannis Baratheon's nearby ships. Just the g-force shock of firing an arrow with a wildfire warhead would most likely result in that warhead instantly exploding thus destroying the scorpion. Having one's own troops set alight would drive the number of volunteers in charge of the scorpion down to zero.


Why would g-force set off wildfire if you just said wildfire won't ignite without direct contact with flame? Either the g-force of the impact will ignite it or it won't, but you can't have it both ways.

Being unstable is NOT related to being flammable. In reality there are plenty of materials which are--sometimes necessarily due to chemistry--both, but this is George R. R. Martin's world so he can play with unreality (hence MY "bizarre").

When Tyrion first discovered the wildfire cache kept by the Alchemist's Guild of King's Landing, that chief Pyromancer had to explicitly warn Tyrion to be cautious just handling the container holding a sample of wildfire.

You cannot plan for impact when wildfire almost certainly will explode when being launched. Hell, a warhead loaded with wildfire would be unlikely to survive just being transported on a lightly rutted road.

The books even make a point of having Tyrion mock Cersei (in his inner monologue?) for planning to fire wildfire from catapults.
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Post by Robert »

Books? We're far beyond the help of books.
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Post by chikie »

Just talking about last time they tried defending kings landing.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

The problem with the catapults in the defense of Kings Landing was not with the instability of Wildfire as much as the clumsiness of the soldiers handling it.
As far as igniting a wildfire-tipped scorpion bolt; the dragon would do that when it tried to defend itself.
[spoiler]However, I think Bronn got off a lucky shot. Now that Daenerys and Drogon know what the scorpions are, they will be torched first. Qyburn will have to have hundreds of them on the ramparts of the Red Keep to make a problem for the dragons.[/spoiler]
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Post by StaticAge »

[spoiler]Yeah, I thought it was a bit unbelievable that Bronn had the skills to figure out speed and trajectory and plot the arch of the shot like he'd been doing that for decades on the fly. Lol.[/spoiler]
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StaticAge wrote: [spoiler]Yeah, I thought it was a bit unbelievable that Bronn had the skills to figure out speed and trajectory and plot the arch of the shot like he'd been doing that for decades on the fly. Lol.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Definitely looked like he's been training for weeks on the thing. Also a point that the average archer couldn't work it without such training.[/spoiler]
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Post by StaticAge »

user wrote:
StaticAge wrote: [spoiler]Yeah, I thought it was a bit unbelievable that Bronn had the skills to figure out speed and trajectory and plot the arch of the shot like he'd been doing that for decades on the fly. Lol.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Definitely looked like he's been training for weeks on the thing. Also a point that the average archer couldn't work it without such training.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]They implied he had some training, he clearly knew how to load and operate it, but enough to hit, not just a moving target, but a flying target in the heat of battle? What did they practice shooting at?[/spoiler]
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Post by Robert »

Speculation scenario:

[spoiler]Jamie AND Bronn are taken prisoner. Jamie demands trial by combat and nominates Bronn, who will fight in Jamie's place against Greyworm. :eek:

They fight it out in a well-matched duel, but finally a mortally wounded Greyworm defeats Bronn with a lance tipped with a wildfire warhead.

Danaerys orders Jamie's execution, but Tyrion frees him, only to face the Queen's wrath and is himself executed.

Greyworm dies of his wounds.[/spoiler]
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Post by DukeofNuke »

Robert B. wrote: Speculation scenario:

[spoiler]Jamie AND Bronn are taken prisoner. Jamie demands trial by combat and nominates Bronn, who will fight in Jamie's place against Greyworm. :eek:

They fight it out in a well-matched duel, but finally a mortally wounded Greyworm defeats Bronn with a lance tipped with a wildfire warhead.

Danaerys orders Jamie's execution, but Tyrion frees him, only to face the Queen's wrath and is himself executed.

Greyworm dies of his wounds.[/spoiler]


[spoiler]BUT, Melisandre licks his wounds, and he comes back to life, and now he has a dick,
and Missandei shows him how to use it![/spoiler]
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Post by Robert »

DukeofNuke wrote:
[spoiler]BUT, Melisandre licks his wounds, and he comes back to life, and now he has a dick,
and Missandei shows him how to use it![/spoiler]


[spoiler]Booooo... the only way I want to see Greyworm reanimated is in the army of the dead. Maybe coming face to face with Missandei.[/spoiler]
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Post by DEyncourt »

chikie wrote:
DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote:
DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote: Dragon arrows with wildfire warhead. Make it so, Qyburn.

Um...
1) Wildfire is NOT self-igniting. In fact it has the bizarre characteristic of REQUIRING direct contact with an open flame to be ignited after which it can react quickly enough that within an enclosed space that a large pool of wildfire can produce a large explosion (witness the Great Sept of Baelor).

2) On the other hand wildfire is so notoriously unstable that it must be handled with great care at all times. Because increasing age can badly affect its stability, its use as any sort of payload is VERY questionable. Likely Tyrion Lannnister understood this characteristic which was why he was able to use wildfire so effectively in the Battle of Blackwater Bay by launching an otherwise empty ship loaded with wildfire leaking out of it. Not only did Bronn's flaming arrow ignite the leaking wildfire (again showing the requirement of an open flame), but the fire eventually got to the ship which exploded taking out several of Stannis Baratheon's nearby ships. Just the g-force shock of firing an arrow with a wildfire warhead would most likely result in that warhead instantly exploding thus destroying the scorpion. Having one's own troops set alight would drive the number of volunteers in charge of the scorpion down to zero.


Why would g-force set off wildfire if you just said wildfire won't ignite without direct contact with flame? Either the g-force of the impact will ignite it or it won't, but you can't have it both ways.

Being unstable is NOT related to being flammable. In reality there are plenty of materials which are--sometimes necessarily due to chemistry--both, but this is George R. R. Martin's world so he can play with unreality (hence MY "bizarre").

When Tyrion first discovered the wildfire cache kept by the Alchemist's Guild of King's Landing, that chief Pyromancer had to explicitly warn Tyrion to be cautious just handling the container holding a sample of wildfire.

You cannot plan for impact when wildfire almost certainly will explode when being launched. Hell, a warhead loaded with wildfire would be unlikely to survive just being transported on a lightly rutted road.

The books even make a point of having Tyrion mock Cersei (in his inner monologue?) for planning to fire wildfire from catapults.

Robert B. wrote: Books? We're far beyond the help of books.

I'm a bit hazy on THAT detail about that mocking (it has been a while since I've read them), but in the TV series between being told about the cache of wildfire and the Battle of Blackwater Bay there was one scene in which Tyrion was experimenting with wildfire, although with Lannister troops doing the actual handling with disasterous results.

Apparently Tyrion is a practical character who wanted to know the limitations of wildfire before attempting to use it.
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pig human waste
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Post by Robert »

Why not?
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Post by DEyncourt »

In case you need a little inspiration here is IMDB's "No Small Parts" video for Bella Ramsey who has been playing Lady Lyanna Mormont of Bear Island.

I guess a tiny bit of a spoiler if you haven't yet seen the current season of Game of Thrones.
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