Game of F'ing Thrones: the F'ing Show

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Robert
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Post by Robert »

DEyncourt wrote:
Robert B. wrote:
DEyncourt wrote: That official "after" show for GoT will be on the Monday following each new episode on Sunday.


meh

-edit- I take that back. these guys are fuckin' terrible.

I didn't think the show was THAT bad. Sure, a lot of room for improvement like leaving comedy to professionals like Chris Hardwick and go MUCH lighter on the puns. I also get a sense that these guys may be under considerably more restraint than Hardwick is on "Talking Dead" and may be less free to speculate, on top of being a new show that must balance between getting too lost delving into GoT series history while staying current.

Perhaps further into this season, this show can get actors and writers and directors and other crew to provide behind-the-scene insights. Maybe they can indulge in live though remote interviews with such though there is the bigger problem of the time zone difference (7 hours between LA and Iceland to 9 hours between LA and Malta).


I gave it another shot and watched a few more episodes. I stand by my previous statement. These guys are fuckin' terrible. Endless, stupid banter and talking over each other to throw in just one more joke for nothing except to fill the time. They're trying to be Siskel & Ebert, but lack charisma and chemistry, or interesting things to say.
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Image
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Too small.
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Post by jkahless »

Mother fuckin' dragon!!
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Post by DukeofNuke »

Drogon's grown a bit, hasn't he?
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Post by Robert »

juice wrote: Who knew the show was about Hillary?

;) ;)


No, I was thinking George W.
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Post by user »

You mean HotPie?
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Post by macnuke »

TOS wrote: Image

Ikea would never sell that.

it's already assembled and they don't do that.

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Post by user »

DukeofNuke wrote: Drogon's grown a bit, hasn't he?

Flame tubes on each side of his jaws. Nice touch.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

"Pyrorafice"
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(I made that up ... )
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Post by mmaverick »

This last season has been much better than recent books/shows but it's suffering from the same problem as the books. GRRM went to wide, and lost control of his story.
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Post by jkahless »

Anyone else get the impression that Jamie will die by Breanne's hand.
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Post by user »

Breanne will be split by Jamie's sword.
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Post by StaticAge »

jkahless wrote: Anyone else get the impression that Jamie will die by Breanne's hand.

While a lot of the series has told the story past where the books leave off, Jaime's arch has almost caught up with where the books leave off.

[spoiler]The main differences are that Jaime left to negotiate with various holdouts (eventually making his way to Riverrun) around the same time that he first gives Brienne the sword in King's Landing, and he never went to Dorne like in the show. The whole time he is traveling he is dealing with the changes in his life due to losing his hand etc, and comes to resent Cersei, and burns a request he gets asking him to defend her in trial by combat.

Brienne, on the other hand hasn't caught up with either Stark girl yet in the books, but found Sandor living as another person at a monastery, and the comes across Lady Stoneheart, the resurrected Catelyn Stark, who basically judges the people Sandor saw the Brothers Without Banners hang. Lord Beric actually exchanged his life for hers in the books and she took over his leadership, so she probably won't be in the show. Anyway, Stoneheart makes Brienne choose whether to die or to go kill Jaime, who Brienne had tried to defend, telling Stoneheart that he'd changed. The last scene with her has her finding Jaime and trying to convince him to go with her to rescue Sansa from the Hound, which seems to be a lie.[/spoiler]
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Post by DEyncourt »

StaticAge wrote:
jkahless wrote: Anyone else get the impression that Jamie will die by Breanne's hand.

While a lot of the series has told the story past where the books leave off, Jaime's arch has almost caught up with where the books leave off.

[spoiler]The main differences are that Jaime left to negotiate with various holdouts (eventually making his way to Riverrun) around the same time that he first gives Brienne the sword in King's Landing, and he never went to Dorne like in the show. The whole time he is traveling he is dealing with the changes in his life due to losing his hand etc, and comes to resent Cersei, and burns a request he gets asking him to defend her in trial by combat.

Brienne, on the other hand hasn't caught up with either Stark girl yet in the books, but found Sandor living as another person at a monastery, and the comes across Lady Stoneheart, the resurrected Catelyn Stark, who basically judges the people Sandor saw the Brothers Without Banners hang. Lord Beric actually exchanged his life for hers in the books and she took over his leadership, so she probably won't be in the show. Anyway, Stoneheart makes Brienne choose whether to die or to go kill Jaime, who Brienne had tried to defend, telling Stoneheart that he'd changed. The last scene with her has her finding Jaime and trying to convince him to go with her to rescue Sansa from the Hound, which seems to be a lie.[/spoiler]

I beg to differ. The series has left ALL of the books behind including Jaime Lannister's arc. If anything the books simply hadn't the chance to tell of his trip to Dorne, simply leaving him rather vaguely PERHAPS still in the Red Keep of King's Landing, estranged with Cersei.

About the only thing I would argue that was kinda-sorta "still" in the books was Arya's story in Braavos (well, up to about the past three episodes). I SUSPECT that part of the reason why the series had to re-arrange her story with some significant parts being moved later in her arc was that Maisie Williams was NOT 18 when they started filming Arya in Braavos (her 18th birthday was on April 15, 2015. While season 5 was aired in 2015, it was entirely filmed before her 18th birthday). Even with computerized special effects and stunt doubles there are some actions that a child actor cannot be forced to do such as wearing contacts to make her appear pupil-less and thus blind, even one as dedicated as Williams. You may recall she learned to fight with a sword with her left hand because in the books Arya is rather proudly left-handed while the actress is actually right-handed and every now and again reveals her handedness. One such situation was 3 episodes ago--again, not (yet) in the novels--when Arya recovers Needle from where she had cached it among some rocks, perhaps in a breakwater for the port of Braavos. While arguably Arya just could have been using her right hand to reach for Needle, I think a left-hander would have placed herself in a position so she would have used her left hand to grab Needle and her right hand as support and not the other way around.
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Post by StaticAge »

The very latest episode just aired had Jaime negotiating at Riverrun and dealing with the Blackfish. That just happened in the show, but it was covered in the books back in the Feast for Crows.
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Post by DEyncourt »

StaticAge wrote: The very latest episode just aired had Jaime negotiating at Riverrun and dealing with the Blackfish. That just happened in the show, but it was covered in the books back in the Feast for Crows.

Ah, my mistake. You are right, but A Dance with Dragon leaves Jaime Lannister on his way back to King's Landing with the idea that he might go elsewhere first (to Dorne to rescue Myrcella for the specific purpose of getting back into Cersei's favor?). But then the books also has the Blackfish escaping from Riverrun with Edmure's permission too (though before the castle was surrendered). On the other hand, given Martin's world I wouldn't necessarily count on a character being dead unless you see him being beheaded "on camera" a la Eddard Stark. Exactly who told Jaime that the Blackfish was dead: troops from the Lannister/Frey siege or Tully soldiers? Perhaps in this season's remaining episodes there will be an answer to that.

Oh well, such are the problems with trying to maintain separate timelines on virtually the same story. Given the increasingly widespread differences, I will be surprised if Martin actually continues with the novels for the Song of Fire and Ice but simply will let the series be the story (contracts with the publishers be damned).
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Post by jkahless »

Come on. If you're going to post spoilers for the books, use the Damn code. It's not hard.
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Post by DEyncourt »

jkahless wrote: Come on. If you're going to post spoilers for the books, use the Damn code. It's not hard.

Um, when we are discussing specifically on how the series is differing from the books, especially about how--aside from the one that Static Age mentioned and "spoilerized" which I suspect Martin was happy to omit from the series--there are now no story lines which the series has gone beyond the books?

And "spoilers for the books"? A Dance with Dragons was published over 2 years ago. If you've been watching the series then all of the books have been spoiled.
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Post by jkahless »

DEyncourt wrote:
jkahless wrote: Come on. If you're going to post spoilers for the books, use the Damn code. It's not hard.

Um, when we are discussing specifically on how the series is differing from the books, especially about how--aside from the one that Static Age mentioned and "spoilerized" which I suspect Martin was happy to omit from the series--there are now no story lines which the series has gone beyond the books?

And "spoilers for the books"? A Dance with Dragons was published over 2 years ago. If you've been watching the series then all of the books have been spoiled.


It's a reasonable request, you don't need to try and justify yourself.
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Post by user »

I've been slowly reading my way through the books in e-book form. At this point I regard the TV series to be the story and the books are extra fluff.
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Post by DEyncourt »

The reason why I think that Martin is happy to leave out from the TV series the storyline that Static Age mentioned was that he basically had written himself into a corner. [spoiler]Catelyn Stark being revived under the name of Lady Stoneheat by Thoros of Myr among the brotherhood without banners could have had, um, interesting stories--especially if and when Lady Stoneheart would interact with each of her surviving children--but Martin had already established that with Thoros' revivals of Beric Dondarrion that the latter had lost important parts of his memory from the first revival and even more with each subsequent time. While one might put forward the importance of a mother's bond with her children as somehow overriding this loss, Beric also explicitly complained about how he knows how important family is but he can scarcely recall his own.

Of course earlier it was POSSIBLY explained--though this has not (yet) been stated (and perhaps never will)--that the reason why Jon Snow was able to recover so completely from his revival at Castle Black was that he had "warged" into Ghost, his dire wolf, while his body was dead. Catelyn Stark had no such beast when she died AND perhaps does not even have that capability to warg. Since at least a couple of EDDARD Stark's children--specifically Jon and Bran--have shown this ability, it may be a family trait only for the Starks (Catelyn being a Tully and married into the family). Perhaps warging is also gender-specific since neither of the Stark girls have shown any signs, though, of course, both Sansa and Arya never had a chance to try it since early in the overall story Sansa's Lady was killed for Arya's Nymeria defensively attacking Prince Joffrey, and Arya chased Nymeria away realizing that the dire wolf would be killed as punishment (though my bet is that SOMETIME (soon?) there will be a re-uniting of Arya with Nymeria and perhaps that will be the time when a[nother? I don't recall any others off hand] female character will warg, perhaps with even the bonus of Nymeria being warged by Arya saving Sansa).

In any case Catelyn would have had to be revived by Thoros without that benefit of her soul being saved somehow/where and thus would have lost substantial parts of her memory especially family ties. While that loss could bring up DIFFERENT story ideas, I think Martin's main problem was to explain how Catelyn's revival was somehow different and perhaps "better" than Beric's. Just leaving out this storyline fixes that.[/spoiler]
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Post by StaticAge »

[spoiler]Arya warged into a housecat in the books, it was how she defeated the waif while blinded. She also has vivid dreams as Nymeria.[/spoiler]

Really, the Stark kids seem to divide by hair color, not gender, when it comes to warging. I don't think Robb or Sansa ever warged in show or books.
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Post by DEyncourt »

Um, hair color? :)

Robb Stark:

Image

Jon Snow:

Image

Arya Stark:

Image

Bran Stark:

Image

Rickon Stark (though he hadn't had a chance to demonstrate any ability to warg):

Image

If anything only Sansa Stark is the odd one out:

Image

On Robb Stark warging: well, there was that business of running a rebellion that kept him preoccupied.

-----

In the books the main purpose for [spoiler]Lady Stoneheart[/spoiler] was to focus the brotherhood without banners on harrassment of the Freys. Who might take on that role? How about Arya, having returned to Westeros from her "training" at Braavos? She certainly has the motivation since Walder Frey is on her "preyer" list.

Hmm...combine her (I think probable) reunion with her dire wolf, Nymeria, with the Faceless Men ability to alter her appearance (demonstrated during Arya's assassination of Meryn Trant in a brothel in Braavos), might we will see a "revival" of Robb Stark with dire wolf at her side? Wouldn't that make Walder Frey quake (or worse) in his boots?
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Post by StaticAge »

In the book all the Stark kids have auburn hair like the Tullys except Arya and Jon. TV Robb's hair is darker than his mother or sister, but it's still lighter than Arya, Ned, and Jon, and Bran and Rickon have dark hair too, or at least Bran does.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

the Faceless Men ability to alter her appearance (demonstrated during Arya's assassination of Meryn Trant in a brothel in Braavos)

I think she has to have access to the faces in the temple to do that. Basically, it's just putting on a mask.

[spoiler]Iirc, in the book, when Brienne meets Lady Stoneheart, Lady Stoneheart condems her and Pod to hang for their association with the Lannisters. It doesn't happen "on stage", but I had the feeling that it was Zombie Brienne that catches up with Jamie and that she is there to kill him.[/spoiler]
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Post by DEyncourt »

DukeofNuke wrote:
the Faceless Men ability to alter her appearance (demonstrated during Arya's assassination of Meryn Trant in a brothel in Braavos)

I think she has to have access to the faces in the temple to do that. Basically, it's just putting on a mask.

[spoiler]Iirc, in the book, when Brienne meets Lady Stoneheart, Lady Stoneheart condems her and Pod to hang for their association with the Lannisters. It doesn't happen "on stage", but I had the feeling that it was Zombie Brienne that catches up with Jamie and that she is there to kill him.[/spoiler]

There was when Jaqen H'ghar helped to get Arya and friends out of Harrenhal and gave her the "valar morghulis" coin for entry into the House of Black and White in Braavos. He followed that with the announcement that Jaqen must "die" (towards that idea I THINK that in the series Jaqen has never appeared in that guise outside the House following this point) and transforms his face right in front of Arya basically with a wave of his hand. Arguably what he did was remove his Jaqen mask to reveal his true face or put on another mask in his hand, or maybe it was just magic.
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Post by chikie »

[spoiler]Of all the deaths anybody has received on this show, I think Ramsay Bolton's death has to have been the most appropriate and enjoyable. I was so afraid that Jon was just going to beat him to death and he wouldn't have a chance to get fed to the dogs.[/spoiler]
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Post by DukeofNuke »

chikie wrote: [spoiler]Of all the deaths anybody has received on this show, I think Ramsay Bolton's death has to have been the most appropriate and enjoyable. I was so afraid that Jon was just going to beat him to death and he wouldn't have a chance to get fed to the dogs.[/spoiler]

I kinda hate that Ramsey's "hounds" were depicted as giant (the CGI wasn't all that good, was it?) Pit Bulls. Especially ones with cropped ears, like that was something they would do on that planet.
I would have expected them to be more like Mastiffs or Rottweilers, ya know? Medieval lookin' dogs ...

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Post by chikie »

Those weren't pit bulls. They were mastiffs.
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Post by Robert »

Yeah, pit bulls are sweet and loving.

Daenerys Targeryan repeatedly demonstrates how horrible a governor she is and would be on the iron throne. It would be fitting if eventually her ambition drove her to paranoia and destruction to the extent that her council plotted her assassination.

Resolution 1:
Hmm, so maybe Tyrion, being the rational person on the council sees Daenerys descending into madness and tries to slowly bring the others on board to deposing her, but not killing her. Greyworm, being the loyal dummy he is, rats Tyrion out and Daenerys blames them all and orders their deaths. Maybe she starts with Tyrion, but she gets to Missande and Greyworm can't have that so he stabs Daenerys in the back. The three (or two) try to hold stability over Mareen. The problem now is that nobody has control over the dragons or the Dothraki and so they just run amuck all over the place.

I could dig that scenario.



Resolution 2:
Cersei refuses to let herself be put on trial so she flees the capital to return to Casterly Rock, accompanied by The Mountain and a contingent of men. On her way, she intends to stop at Riverrun to persuade Jamie to come with her.

Arya on her return to Westeros encounters The Hound who is now traveling with the Brothers Without Banners. She joins them for the time being.

Brienne and Podrick run across Cersei's party and are taken prisoner and hauled back to Riverrun where she intends to hang them, just because. This runs afoul of Jamie, driving a wedge between the siblings. Arya infiltrates Riverrun and poisons the food supply which kills half the men.

Cersei hangs Brienne and Podrick and leaves Riverrun but is stopped by the Brothers Without Banners. Arya wants to execute Cersei, so they have a trial by combat and The Hound finally gets to have it out with his brother, The Mountain, and wins. Jamie comes to the rescue. Arya (maybe Tormund) challenges Jamie to fight. He scoffs, but Arya knows he is weakened by poison and dodges through the entire fight until he finally succumbs in front of Cersei's eyes. Cersei never makes it back to Casterly Rock.



There ya go, George, now you can finish your books. No charge.
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Post by Farmerkev »

chikie wrote: [spoiler]Of all the deaths anybody has received on this show, I think Ramsay Bolton's death has to have been the most appropriate and enjoyable. I was so afraid that Jon was just going to beat him to death and he wouldn't have a chance to get fed to the dogs.[/spoiler]


All the "hated" characters have been pretty good but yes, this one was particularly fitting and satisfying.
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Post by mmaverick »

chikie wrote: [spoiler]Of all the deaths anybody has received on this show, I think Ramsay Bolton's death has to have been the most appropriate and enjoyable. I was so afraid that Jon was just going to beat him to death and he wouldn't have a chance to get fed to the dogs.[/spoiler]



[spoiler]See, I totally disagree. I think Jon should have cut his head off the same way Ned would have. Take him out in chains, and put his head on a block. His actual end, especially Sansa's smirk at the end, doesn't fit.[/spoiler]
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Post by user »

Part of what makes the show interesting is that the white hats are actually a good bit grey and the black hats are often a little pale.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

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Post by jkahless »

mmaverick wrote:
chikie wrote: [spoiler]Of all the deaths anybody has received on this show, I think Ramsay Bolton's death has to have been the most appropriate and enjoyable. I was so afraid that Jon was just going to beat him to death and he wouldn't have a chance to get fed to the dogs.[/spoiler]



[spoiler]See, I totally disagree. I think Jon should have cut his head off the same way Ned would have. Take him out in chains, and put his head on a block. His actual end, especially Sansa's smirk at the end, doesn't fit.[/spoiler]


[spoiler]I wonder if that was what Jon planned, and Sansa did what she did without his knowledge. It makes more sense than Jon allowing Ramsey to be tortured to death, even after what he did. I'm concerned that Sansa's abuse has pushed her down a path that leads ever downwards, with her becoming a sick bastard like Bolton.[/spoiler]

I suggested that to a friend of mine, and she got all offended, and effectively accused me of misogyny. So I'm probably right.
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Post by StaticAge »

jkahless wrote:
mmaverick wrote:
chikie wrote: [spoiler]Of all the deaths anybody has received on this show, I think Ramsay Bolton's death has to have been the most appropriate and enjoyable. I was so afraid that Jon was just going to beat him to death and he wouldn't have a chance to get fed to the dogs.[/spoiler]



[spoiler]See, I totally disagree. I think Jon should have cut his head off the same way Ned would have. Take him out in chains, and put his head on a block. His actual end, especially Sansa's smirk at the end, doesn't fit.[/spoiler]


[spoiler]I wonder if that was what Jon planned, and Sansa did what she did without his knowledge. It makes more sense than Jon allowing Ramsey to be tortured to death, even after what he did. I'm concerned that Sansa's abuse has pushed her down a path that leads ever downwards, with her becoming a sick bastard like Bolton.[/spoiler]

I suggested that to a friend of mine, and she got all offended, and effectively accused me of misogyny. So I'm probably right.

Hmm. In a letter outlining his plans for the original story arch, [spoiler]grrm intended for her to get preggers by Joff and, out of misplaced loyalty, she'd side against her family later in the story.[/spoiler] It would be interesting if he still had that kind of endgame in mind for her character and this is how it was reworked.
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Post by Robert »

Well, maybe [spoiler]Sansa is pregnant? Ramsay did say that he is still part of her now.[/spoiler]
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Post by StaticAge »

Yeah, I thought the same thing when he said that.
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