Game of F'ing Thrones: the F'ing Show

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StaticAge
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Post by StaticAge »

It's getting harder for me to enjoy the show. Yeah, they are diverging from the books, but these invented plot lines are stupid. Meanwhile there's actually cool stuff they're ignoring. Like how in the books Catelyn Stark becomes the zombie leader of Dondarrions brotherhood, but apparently they are totally cutting her out (interviews etc say so). There's a rich storyline with Theon's sisters desire to lead the Iron Isles as well as plenty of room for storylines of her battles etc, but she's been ignored entirely this season so far. Last season when they invented the scenes of the nights watch coming up to rescue Bran, it was just pointless drivel- Bran's party was never captured in the books, no one needed to free them and in the show, there was no meaningful effect caused by this diversion. I'm very upset Ser Barristan died. He doesn't in the books, and his character is awesome. Ser Loras is supposed to be a great swordsman and warrior whose sexuality is only implied in the books but he's just a royal dandy having sex all the time in the show. The swapping out of an imposter for the real Sansa was upsetting too. And since they are diverging so much from the books, the excuse producers and apologists are giving for her rape scene are thin. Yeah, Jeyne Poole gets raped and tortured and Theon is forced to participate. So what? Theon and Jeyne also try to escape and there is a lot of speculation for what Baelish's moves are leading up to. They've either come to an end in the show, or, the whole storyline is meaningless and will get corrected. It's stupid. I know books and renditions of books aren't the same, but it's difficult to get excited over all the changes they're making to the story.
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jkahless
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Post by jkahless »

That's why I'm not reading the books till the show is over, to avoid disappointment.
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Post by mmaverick »

StaticAge wrote: It's getting harder for me to enjoy the show. Yeah, they are diverging from the books, but these invented plot lines are stupid. Meanwhile there's actually cool stuff they're ignoring. Like how in the books Catelyn Stark becomes the zombie leader of Dondarrions brotherhood, but apparently they are totally cutting her out (interviews etc say so). There's a rich storyline with Theon's sisters desire to lead the Iron Isles as well as plenty of room for storylines of her battles etc, but she's been ignored entirely this season so far. Last season when they invented the scenes of the nights watch coming up to rescue Bran, it was just pointless drivel- Bran's party was never captured in the books, no one needed to free them and in the show, there was no meaningful effect caused by this diversion. I'm very upset Ser Barristan died. He doesn't in the books, and his character is awesome. Ser Loras is supposed to be a great swordsman and warrior whose sexuality is only implied in the books but he's just a royal dandy having sex all the time in the show. The swapping out of an imposter for the real Sansa was upsetting too. And since they are diverging so much from the books, the excuse producers and apologists are giving for her rape scene are thin. Yeah, Jeyne Poole gets raped and tortured and Theon is forced to participate. So what? Theon and Jeyne also try to escape and there is a lot of speculation for what Baelish's moves are leading up to. They've either come to an end in the show, or, the whole storyline is meaningless and will get corrected. It's stupid. I know books and renditions of books aren't the same, but it's difficult to get excited over all the changes they're making to the story.



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Eh, I've been bored with this season, but it's still better than the garbage dump the books turned into.
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Post by DEyncourt »

Much of the time the storyline- and character-compressions that are required when a book is transformed to the screen are perfectly understandable.

For example: having Brienne and Podrick meet the Hound and Ayra on the road during Brienne's search for Sansa even advances their storylines. Having Arya sneak away during the fight between Brienne and the Hound could even give Brienne additional motivations: does she chase after Arya and for how long? After finding that Sansa was "safely" (for not very stable definitions of "safe") ensconced somewhere (yes, including within Winterfell under the conrol of Boltens), would Brienne switch to looking for Arya?

On the other hand: the HBO series has continued as if Brienne had never encountered Arya. Given the perilous nature of life within the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros, one might think that just about the first thing out of Brienne's mouth to Sansa should have been: "I talked--very briefly--to your sister Arya. Less than a week ago. No, I had not seen her at all before, but Podrick here can confirmed that it really was her. I have a tale to explain why Arya is not here with me...."

On the THIRD hand: the above bit of compression would have little effect on the storylines within the books. Exactly HOW Arya got away from the Hound is not so important as the fact that she DOES get away without the Hound being able to pursue her.

This is NOT so for whole of the northern story arc concerning the Vale and Winterfell (thus including Brienne and Podrick AFTER the above fight, Sansa, Littlefinger, the Boltens and Theon). There are many chapters from A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons that would have to be rewritten or perhaps simply excised in order to be reconciled with this season of "Game of Thrones". Perhaps Martin will have to expand his series from the original six books--originally Feast and Dance were to be book 4 before Martin decided to split them--to now eight, with another book inserted between Dance and current (and not yet published) book 6, The Winds of Winter, to reconcilie all of these differences that now exist between the books and HBO series.

The biggest problem is any such efforts will delay the release of the books which may also result in a delay of the series.

Personally I suspect that Martin will declare that the HBO series is the "one and true" story, partly because it is SO much more lucrative being a scriptwriter than even a bestsellling-book author.
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Post by StaticAge »

I don't have a huge problem with changes in general, but there ought to be a sure reason for them in the scope of the story being told. Some of their choices haven't done that. You could remove a lot of the diversions and changes they made and they'd have no effect on where the characters are or are supposed to go.
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Alexander Supertramp
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

mmaverick wrote:
StaticAge wrote: It's getting harder for me to enjoy the show. Yeah, they are diverging from the books, but these invented plot lines are stupid. Meanwhile there's actually cool stuff they're ignoring. Like how in the books Catelyn Stark becomes the zombie leader of Dondarrions brotherhood, but apparently they are totally cutting her out (interviews etc say so). There's a rich storyline with Theon's sisters desire to lead the Iron Isles as well as plenty of room for storylines of her battles etc, but she's been ignored entirely this season so far. Last season when they invented the scenes of the nights watch coming up to rescue Bran, it was just pointless drivel- Bran's party was never captured in the books, no one needed to free them and in the show, there was no meaningful effect caused by this diversion. I'm very upset Ser Barristan died. He doesn't in the books, and his character is awesome. Ser Loras is supposed to be a great swordsman and warrior whose sexuality is only implied in the books but he's just a royal dandy having sex all the time in the show. The swapping out of an imposter for the real Sansa was upsetting too. And since they are diverging so much from the books, the excuse producers and apologists are giving for her rape scene are thin. Yeah, Jeyne Poole gets raped and tortured and Theon is forced to participate. So what? Theon and Jeyne also try to escape and there is a lot of speculation for what Baelish's moves are leading up to. They've either come to an end in the show, or, the whole storyline is meaningless and will get corrected. It's stupid. I know books and renditions of books aren't the same, but it's difficult to get excited over all the changes they're making to the story.



"THIS IS ABOUT THE SHOW" - sexy mcskinnyjeans


Eh, I've been bored with this season, but it's still better than the garbage dump the books turned into.


THANK YOU
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Alexander Supertramp
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

For real though, I barely read this thread anymore because it's book garbage.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

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Post by jkahless »

Hmmm, so valerian steel actually is useful.
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Alexander Supertramp
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

That was a great episode.
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Post by Robert »

Would've liked more exposition and less Army of the Dead. Eight episodes in and this season still feels likes it's meandering.
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

See I thought it was meandering until this episode. Winter is stick fiddling coming.
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Post by DEyncourt »

jkahless wrote: Hmmm, so valerian steel actually is useful.

It's also bothersome. Yes, it had been so long--over 500 "years" (or whatever calendrical term that the inhabitants of the planet which Westeros is on use to keep track of passage of time) since the White Walkers had last invaded beyond the Wall--but just as there were lingering stories about the White Walkers shouldn't there be at least some tale told among the people of Winterfell (if not all around Westeros) that Jon Snow should have heard about how his legendary ancestor wielded Ice to "single-handedly" cut down the White Walkers to save Winterfell AND that the fact that Ice was a Valerian blade was the crucial difference?
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Post by user »

V steel must be cut with obsidian.
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Post by Pariah »

Ugh, zombies...
Seriously? Ice zombies?
I am so stick fiddling bored with zombies.
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

The very first episode had zombies. Where have you been?
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Post by Malkin »

What's the difference between the initial zombie zombies and the ice zombies?
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Post by user »

The ice ones are the Whitewalkers. They are in charge.
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Post by Conner »

Malkin wrote: What's the difference between the initial zombie zombies and the ice zombies?


Preface: I've not read the books, so my thoughts/speculation are based just on the show.

From what I can tell, the White Walkers are not really zombies - they seem to be men (Crastor's kids) that have been 'converted' to these icy creatures (we saw this in season 3 or 4).

They (and the undead) have been in the show since the very first scene. Super slow play, but it's the entire reason Baratheon even went to the wall in the first place.
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Post by Conner »

user wrote: V steel must be cut with obsidian.


You can't cut obsidian with metal as it's not a metal itself.
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Post by Malkin »

Yeah, but why do some people get made into zombie zombies and others get made into white walkers?
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Post by Conner »

Malkin wrote: Yeah, but why do some people get made into zombie zombies and others get made into white walkers?


Well, one effects the dead and one the living - the latter seem to be babies they can indoctrinate them as well.
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Post by user »

Conner wrote:
user wrote: V steel must be cut with obsidian.


You can't cut obsidian with metal as it's not a metal itself.

That wasn't a serious comment, but there's probably a metallurgical term that's closer to what I meant than "cut" - incorporating another non-metallic substance into an ingot to change the metal's characteristics.
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Post by DukeofNuke »

I tend to think of the White Walkers as not human in any way; like, space aliens or something.
Why they take the babies is anybodies guess, although the blue eyes seems to imply some sort of transformation. That whole scene hasn't played out in the books at all, yet.
As for the zombies, hell this planet's full of 'em. Not only the evil, mindless biters in the North, but also the fully cognizant re-animations of the Red Priests (Beric Dondarrion).
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

There's also Stone Men zombies. Those guys seem rad.
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Post by jkahless »

user wrote: V steel must be cut with obsidian.


It could be the dragon fire used to forge it.
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

I think it's super complicated. Like dragon fire and folding a million times and magic spells.

The Targaeryans were in power with dragons for a long time and didn't seem to make any more Valerian swords.
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Post by Conner »

jkahless wrote:
user wrote: V steel must be cut with obsidian.


It could be the dragon fire used to forge it.


It's interesting since they can remelt the swords and have them retain the properties.
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Post by DEyncourt »

Conner wrote:
jkahless wrote:
user wrote: V steel must be cut with obsidian.


It could be the dragon fire used to forge it.


It's interesting since they can remelt the swords and have them retain the properties.

BAH! You're just using your sciencey understanding. They are magical blades!
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Post by user »

Maybe Jamie's sword is stick fiddled now and he'll find out when he encounters a whitewalker.
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Post by Conner »

user wrote: Maybe Jamie's sword is stick fiddled now and he'll find out when he encounters a whitewalker.


He gave that to Brienne… who is conveniently in the north.
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Post by Alexander Supertramp »

Everything is sort of lining up.

The only thing that can kill the ice dudes is dragon fire crafted gear. Someone happens to have some dragons and someone else happens to be stowed away learning how to control animals with his mind.

[spoiler]I'm curious how Danarys will connect with John Snow who now has to Paul Revere the whole world and also how all the Starks will reconnect and Bran will get in the dragon pilot seat. And how they'll keep us interested now that we know that basically the only thing that really matters is the ice dudes.[/spoiler]
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Post by jkahless »

Conner wrote:
jkahless wrote:
user wrote: V steel must be cut with obsidian.


It could be the dragon fire used to forge it.


It's interesting since they can remelt the swords and have them retain the properties.


The show did a human waste poor job showing how a sword would be reforged. They wouldn't have melted it down, but would have cut it in two and reshaped the two halves.

Alexander Supertramp wrote: Everything is sort of lining up.

The only thing that can kill the ice dudes is dragon fire crafted gear. Someone happens to have some dragons and someone else happens to be stowed away learning how to control animals with his mind.

[spoiler]I'm curious how Danarys will connect with John Snow who now has to Paul Revere the whole world and also how all the Starks will reconnect and Bran will get in the dragon pilot seat. And how they'll keep us interested now that we know that basically the only thing that really matters is the ice dudes.[/spoiler]


That's been my opinion for several months now. It's the only thing that makes sense. How do you fight magical beings? Magical beings.
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Post by StaticAge »

The blacksmith who worked the forge Gendry worked at in Kings Landing, Tobho Mott, said he had learned all the spells etc needed to reforge valyrian steel in Qohor. In the books. I can't remember if he said as much in the show. Jons blade wasn't reforged, it was the same blade with a new handle and pommel.
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Post by user »

I think there was mention of that in the show but they may have put the words in Tyrone Lannister's mouth as he presented Oathkeeper to Jamie.
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Post by Robert »

[spoiler]Once again, the Unsullied fall like Stormtroopers. How again did they defeat armies and liberate cities?[/spoiler]
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Post by user »

Getting fat and lazy I guess.

Yeah it sucks seeing them getting slaughtered like that when they were such unbelievable badasses earlier.
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...so I'm supposed to find the Shadow King from inside a daiquiri?
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Post by DEyncourt »

In defense of the Unsullied: fighting in units against other army units differs completely from defending against guerillas inside your own city (as some people have recently found, though this concept seems beyond the thinking of others).
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Post by user »

The long spears are hard to use in tight spaces, too.
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