Got his favorite toy back, eh?

That daenerys targaryen sure is pretty (and Alfie Allen doesn't look terrible here, which is unusual).

DEyncourt posted:

StaticAge posted:

[snip]
A Craster's ritual with newborn males is always a mystery in the books, so, it bugs me that the show decided to make up what happens and tell us.

Well, the HBO series only shows viewers a tiny bit more of what happens after the Others/White Walkers take away one of Craster's infant sons, so if one is a fervent reader who has avoided the HBO series in order to...um, not pollute GRRMartin's original vision--which would be ignoring his intimate writing connection with the series--then such a reader who has read all of the books so far now knows less that a watcher of the series (who also knows about Littlefinger's and Olenna Tyrell's involvement with Joffrey's murder which basically remains unsolved in the books except for some people being convinced that Tyrion somehow was involved).
[snip]

And now the HBO viewer also knows about Littlefinger conniving with Lysa towards Jon Arryn's murder and her deflection to the Lannisters' involvement which in the books is basically as it was before this week's episode: Jon Arryn's murder was to prevent his revelation of Jaime being the real father of Cersie's children. To be sure: Lysa's note to sister Catelyn had nothing about Jon's knowledge, only the accusation of the Lannisters being responsible for Jon's death.

I think Martin will have a lot of clean-up to do in the opening part of The Winds of Winter, the next book.

DEyncourt posted:

I think Martin will have a lot of clean-up to do in the opening part of The Winds of Winter, the next book.

If he ever finishes it, yes.

StaticAge posted:

DEyncourt posted:

I think Martin will have a lot of clean-up to do in the opening part of The Winds of Winter, the next book.

If he ever finishes it, yes.

I am not sure there will be any “clean up” needed because of the TV series. It’s a different continuity than the novels, so why would he have to take anything from the series into account with the novels?

Warin posted:

StaticAge posted:

DEyncourt posted:

I think Martin will have a lot of clean-up to do in the opening part of The Winds of Winter, the next book.

If he ever finishes it, yes.

I am not sure there will be any “clean up” needed because of the TV series. It’s a different continuity than the novels, so why would he have to take anything from the series into account with the novels?

Because while all along Petyr Baelish has been a conniving rat that no one should trust for a tenth the distance that anyone can throw him, with the relevations in the HBO series this and last week he has gone from someone who reacts (perhaps too well) to circumstances to a mover/shaker who has created his own circumstances. This makes Petyr a much more dangerous character to deal with, much less trust at all. Before the reader/viewer can see Petyr as an opportunist who has taken advantage of his situation in King's Landing and ultimately somewhat justify his actions as a survivor (as Petyr himself had said), but many of his actions take on a different complexion once Petyr is seen as an actor at least partly shaping his own situations. Did Petyr throw in with the Lannisters because he recognized Ned Stark's bad odds when Ned tried to act as Hand of the King against Queen Cersei, or did Petyr actually change Ned's odds to bad because Petyr saw an opportunity to rid himself of the obstacle in his path to a future marriage to Catelyn Stark?

Just wait till you discover who's manipulating Littlefinger!
BWAHAHAHAHA!

BigThumb?

Slight change of direction here, but, the main thing I don't like about the series is stuff that was implied and told in the books, but, is played out in a very overly dramatic and explicit way onscreen. I am honestly sick from all the torture and rape scenes played out onscreen. What bugs me about it is the way its handled. Like, nudity and sex and violence, they are strewn throughout the books, but, the way they created a bunch of scenes, even in the first season, seemed designed purely to flash boobs like it was a cheesy cinemax late nite soft core skin flick. And maybe its just me, but its like they have to keep trying to shock the audience visually to a more extreme degree over and over. To me, its kind of irritating. There are plenty of gut wrenching scenes in the books just based on the emotional factors. I mean, on the one hand, it can be sobering when a scene makes you reflect on how actually disturbing an event should be, but, constantly harping on those sorts of things bothers me because it instead seems to turn around and present what should be disturbing as a mere device for entertaining the audience.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the series in general, thats just my main complaint. Last season, any scene with Theon and Ramsey we began fast forwarding through because they bothered my wife so much, and she loved the books.

Me thinks you guys glossed over those parts while reading them.

A key change that must be made in the books is Sansa Stark's role as the person who can have the insight to Petyr's/Littlefinger's actions. Even though she is not privy to everything for which Littlefinger is responsible, she does have more such knowledge than anyone else aside from Littlefinger himself (and--as such--she is also particularly vulnerable to his treachery) and perhaps Varys (who has his own reasons for not speaking against Littlefinger--perhaps better to have a devil you know at your side rather than taking a chance with an unknown?).

Sansa does have the hurdle to cross of being the romance/fantasy-prone child even though she has had a tough couple of seasons behind her now. Perhaps GRRMartin will use this older background to help protect her from any actions from Littlefinger because to him Sansa is merely a little girl with practically no interest in politics? As such she has almost no value in Littlefinger's world because she simply does what she is told to do and cannot be manipulated in such ways to advance his own goals (well, until it is too late...).

I, for one, LIKE the nudity.

Robert B. posted:

I, for one, LIKE the nudity.

Especially in rape scenes.

I thought we weren't talking about the books in here.

OK, do I have this timing off, but in the books doesn't Petyr Baelish have Sansa Stark dye her hair brunette while she was on the boat on their way to the port for the Vale? That way aside from the few men who saw her boarding his boat she could pass herself off as Alayne Stone, one of Petyr's bastards from one of his whores in King's Landing?

Speaking of changing hair color: it turns out that Sophie Turner--who plays Sansa--is an actual blonde who dyed her hair red to fit her role as Sansa, while the notable blondes of the series--Daenerys and Cersei--are played by non-blondes:

No, I don't even know if she goes through and dyes it, but it's Lysa who tries to get her to do so (probably because it would make Sansa less resemble her mother, who Lysa is very jealous of or worried about because of Petyr).

Last edited by StaticAge on Fri May 09, 2014 1:13 pm.

DEyncourt posted:

Speaking of changing hair color: it turns out that Sophie Turner--who plays Sansa--is an actual blonde who dyed her hair red to fit her role as Sansa, while the notable blondes of the series--Daenerys and Cersei--are played by non-blondes:

Huh?

Alexander Supertramp posted:

I thought we weren't talking about the books in here.

stick fiddling book readers. You have your own thread!

DEyncourt posted:

OK, do I have this timing off, but in the books doesn't Petyr Baelish have Sansa Stark dye her hair brunette while she was on the boat on their way to the port for the Vale? That way aside from the few men who saw her boarding his boat she could pass herself off as Alayne Stone, one of Petyr's bastards from one of his whores in King's Landing?

I THOUGHT WE WERENT TALKING ABOUT BOOKS IN HERE

bratboy posted:

Alexander Supertramp posted:

I thought we weren't talking about the books in here.

stick fiddling book readers. You have your own thread!

Don't you know we can't enjoy an adaptation if it isn't slavish?

Alexander Supertramp posted:

DEyncourt posted:

OK, do I have this timing off, but in the books doesn't Petyr Baelish have Sansa Stark dye her hair brunette while she was on the boat on their way to the port for the Vale? That way aside from the few men who saw her boarding his boat she could pass herself off as Alayne Stone, one of Petyr's bastards from one of his whores in King's Landing?

I THOUGHT WE WERENT TALKING ABOUT BOOKS IN HERE

Does it matter when the HBO series has (by-)passed the story being discussed from books at this point?

I re-read the section concerning Sansa becoming Alayne Stone. She is still a bastard child, but instead Petyr's story is that Alayne's mother was a young noblewoman who he knew "very well" in Braavos who died in childbirth, so he had been raising Alayne. Sansa spends much of the boat trip becoming used to being called Alayne.

Sansa does not dye her hair during the boat trip. She is introduced to Lysa as Alayne, but Lysa does not recognize her. It is only after her prompt wedding to Petyr that he reveals Alayne's true identity to Lysa. As StaticAge pointed out it is Lysa's suggestion to change Sansa's hair color but this is as much as a sign of Lysa's continuing jealousy toward her older sister Catelyn as it is an attempt to deflect queries about any red-haired girl (and keep the Vale out of the current civil wars). While the rest of Sansa's sections in A Storm of Swords has no description of Sansa/Alayne (partly because they are told from her point-of-view), I think that she does dye her hair because she is being the obedient child even though she mentally objected to that proposal from Lysa.

It does matter because they are separate entities. Go talk about the books in the other thread.

You're even allowed to talk about the show in the book thread. I promise.

The alternate ending for Tyrion's epic angry speech in Game of Thrones

Warning: Don't watch if you haven't seen the latest episode.

Saw that coming.

Kind of a shame, because I wanted to see more of that crazy.

so how long before the kid flies eh?

He's a controllable source of power - more useful alive.

I suppose it depends to whom the control of the Vale falls, him or Littlefinger.

I could be wrong, but I think Littlefinger has the advantage here.

user posted:

He's a controllable source of power - more useful alive.

If the kid flies, then Littlefinger holds the Vale, (if he can actually HOLD it).
Which he might be able to do ... if he marries Sansa! (BTW, this is NOT what happens in the book. HBO has gone so far off the original material that I can make a speculation like this with absolutely no foreshadowing.)

I'm going to ban the next person who mentions the books.

What if it's me?

I might make an exception.

nope, ban em all

Yeah, throw the books at them!

I only mentioned it so I wouldn't be accused of revealing spoilers.
Past the Red Wedding, there are two completely different stories.

BANNED

but, I didn't say, "Books" !